かがみの孤城 Week 7

Japanese Language Reading
#1

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Week 7

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Start date: January 1st, 2022
End page (bunko): 187 (end of the 七月 chapter)
End percentage (bunko): 45 (end of the 七月 chapter)
End page (tanko): 134 (end of the 七月 chapter)
End phrase: 静かに、深呼吸する。

Previous week: week 6
Next week: week 8

Discussion Rules

  • Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter and any content in future chapters.
  • When asking for help, please mention the page number. If you are reading the ebook version mention the percentage.
  • Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn.
  • To you lurkers out there: Join the conversation, it’s fun! :durtle:

Read Aloud

We will be reading on Sundays at 10:30PM Japan time (reading the previous week’s content). Here is the time in your local time zone:

2022-01-09T13:30:00Z

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かがみの孤城 (Kagami no Kojou) Book Club
かがみの孤城 (Kagami no Kojou) Book Club
かがみの孤城 Week 8
#2

Read aloud should be 8 days after the chapter starts, so January 9th in this case.

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#3

Thanks, updated. I think the previous thread was also wrong then (but not really relevant anymore :slight_smile:).

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#4

Looks like it’s been wrong for a few weeks, yeah.

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#5

Page 175

Previous 2 sentences:
東条さんだーー、とこころは絶望的に考えていた。
いくらでも悪い想像ができる。

The part I’m trying to figure out:
おそらくはそういうことだったんだろうという光景が
見てきたように思い浮かんで止まらなくなる。

I gather that Kokoro can’t stop seeing some spectacle in her mind. But what is the
おそらくはそういうことだったんだろう part about? I assume it’s something about 東条、since that’s what preceded it…

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#6

It actually refers to the part right after it. Importantly, after おそらくはそういうことだったんだろう comes という光景. So there’s a scene that was “probably something like that” (softened a bit with だろう). The “probably something like that” scene is what won’t stop popping into her mind, and is described in the next few sentences.

あいつ、ムカつくし、生意気だからしめようよ。

萌ちゃん、家近いんでしょ、どこがあいつの家なのか教えてよ。

いいよ、案内してあげる……。

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#7

Around that same spot, I have a question.

Text

しめようよ、という声が聞こえた。

しめる、というのがどういうことなのか、こころにはわからない。だけど、中学に入学する前に、同じ学校の友達と、心配してよく話していた。中学に行って、先輩たちにしめられないようにするにはどうしたらいいかな、と。

締めるなのか、絞めるなのか、頭の中に流れる文字はどれも苦しそうで、理不尽で、こころを震撼させた。まして、相手は先輩ですらない、同じ年の女の子だ。

Does anyone know what the correct meaning of しめる is here? I do think it’s funny that Kokoro doesn’t even know and thinks of the worst possible ones, but I’m curious what it’s actually supposed to be.

I also wonder how they handled this part in the audiobook. :joy:

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#8

I felt like the second half of this section was a bit harder language-wise than past weeks, but I can never tell for sure, it might just be my mental state in the moment. It definitely took a lot of lookups and reading some of the same sentences several times over.

Reading through every meaning of しめる the only ones that seem likely are threatening. Although maybe he was saying they should shut a gate or something? Personally I’m a fan of 締める #6.

This was definitely one of my favorite weeks so far. We got a lot of questions answered and background filled in. It makes Kokoro’s situation even more understandable. No wonder she doesn’t want to go to school (although I still really wish she’d tell her Mom). Aki seems great. I will admit I shed a few tears along with Kokoro when Aki and Fuuka comforted her.

Here’s a picture of some 雪うさぎ by the way.
雪うさぎ

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#9

In the audio book, she simply repeats しめる three times (instead of the part with the two kanji readings, leaving out the なのか) and it is left to the listener to imagine the possible kanji :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I agree, that one has to be it :rofl:

For the 先輩 I assume it’s 締める #4, right? (Edit: But also a wordplay on 絞める, I guess…)

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#10

This makes sense, but I didn’t even consider it because of the そう. My previous reading experience has made me believe that そう refers to things that were just mentioned in the text, and こうrefers to whatever is written next. But this breaks that “rule.” And I had been so proud of noticing that pattern…ah well.

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#11

I think it probably works in this case because it’s part of a relative clause. The 光景 that she can’t stop seeing are the kind that make you go おそらくはそういうことだったんだろう. That also would explain why it’s in the past tense with だった.

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#12

It certainly contained a lot of unfamiliar words and kanji (many without furigana) for me comparatively so that did take some time (but I’m a much lower Wanikani level than you). That this was such an emotional and pivotal part of the story might also have something to do with it, maybe? The parts with stronger emotions or serious conversations are always slower going for me because I want to make sure I get all the nuances right (which is less of a concern in the parts where Kokoro is just exploring the castle and the rooms and decorations are described, for example).

Thank you for sharing! Illustrative of what she means. And again a great example of something that is simple to make but looks so good (and cute)!

Two language questions that I had this week:

p. 176: なぜ今、二人のまったく知らない、私の友達でもないクラスメートがこんなところまで来てしまったのか

I was a little confused by the 二人 in this sentence. A little later, I think she says that it sounds like there are around ten kids around her house, so then 二人 seems oddly specific (surely she can’t know that there are specifically two kids in that group that she doesn’t know). Am I misinterpreting something here?

p. 178: 薄く凍るような息遣いを洩らす唇

The full sentence is this: どうしてこんなに怖いのに、涙が出ないんだろう、と思っていると、薄く凍るような息遣いを洩らす唇に、涙の塩辛さが当たった。

I don’t really understand what the highlighted part is describing. She’s thinly breathing through her lips, maybe? 凍る as in literally cold, or as in holding her breath?

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#13
Page 176

I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the parents. Why are people at the house who neither of her parents know and aren’t even Kokoro’s friends?

Full sentence is:

お母さんとお父さんと一緒に過ごせる、お父さんやお母さんの、家族の場所であるはずだったのに、なぜ今、二人のまったく知らない、私の友達でもないクラスメートがこんなところまで来てしまったのか。

It’s important to post entire sentences at a minimum (and sometimes proceeding sentences) for full context. (Thankfully I have an easily searchable copy of the book on my computer, so it’s not a big deal for me.)

Page 178

I’m not 100% sure, but I think the 薄く might be modifying 洩らす, not 凍る. Like her breath weakly escaped her lips or something like that.

As for 凍る, the definition is literal freezing or otherwise being very cold. It can also describe being (figuratively?) frozen from fear, so it could be that I suppose. I don’t think it can mean anything like holding her breath.

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#14

Ah yes, you must be right (also makes more grammatical sense). I don’t know why I hadn’t thought of that… :sweat_smile:

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#15

Perhaps it’s a two-fold effect. The author also wants to get all the nuances right so the language gets more complex.

Ironically with Murata it almost seems to be the opposite (minor 地球生人 week 5). はい、わかりました。ごめんなさい。

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#16

Yes, good point. And you’re right about Murata. I just read that part this afternoon :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: Even though that is also an emotional scene, it was still fairly easy to read even at my level.

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