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かがみの孤城 Home Thread
Start date: December 11th
End page (bunko): 161
End percentage (bunko): 39
End phrase: 三人しかいない女子を全員、順番に好きになったのだ。
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For some reason, this week has been slow going for me (I’m trying to make sure I understand everything that is going on).
I’ve only read up to the part where Kokoro flees the castle after seeing that the other two girls have become 仲良くwith each other.
Here are two discussion questions about that part:
How do you feel about Kokoro reacting in this way?
Kokoro seems to dislike the other girls (is it dislike or some other emotion?). Are her feelings justified at this point?
I’ll post my own thoughts on these points later, but I’m curious what other people think.
I think @Wildjinjer got to the heart of it–Kokoro is particularly sensitive around other girls because of the way Sanada and the other girls treated her. This is probably why she’s more willing to hang out with and be “one of the guys”.
What Kokoro went through seems really nasty but not out of the ordinary for how vindictive middle-schoolers can act. My sister went through similar issues in middle school, and I’m angry at my then-only-a-couple-years-older self for not being as empathetic and supportive as I could have been. I think it was legitimately the same situation–there was a girl who dated her ex-boyfriend who decided she had to “take down” my sister in order to alleviate her own insecurities. It shocks me how cruel kids can be. I find myself wanting to tell Kokoro to “toughen up” and that ultimately these issues don’t matter, but I recognize that that’s so much easier said than done for the person living through it.
When Kokoro fled from the castle after seeing Aki and Fuka together, I felt very sad for her that something so seemingly innocent can spook her in such a way just as she was starting to make friends again. Last week I said that I was hoping that she wouldn’t be upset about the teasing that the previous chapter ended on and at first she seemed to be doing fine, saying that she could handle Masamune’s teasing. But then it seemed to go wrong after all. I’m glad that at least at the end of this week’s reading it seems to be alright again.
Regarding whether her feelings are justified: it seems that the business with Sanada has indeed given her an irrational fear of girls (basically what you two are also saying). We even saw that a little bit when she visited the スクール. Rationally she knows that she should be able to make friends with the girls (I think she has said that a few times now), but then her fears seem to take over.
Fuka and Aki themselves have not giving her enough reason to fear them, I think, but Kokoro seems very sensitive to their actions. Fuka seems to me to be an introvert girl and Kokoro had an uneasy first meeting with her and I think Kokoro finds Fuka’s remarks (ばっかみたい) very unpleasant (even though they are actually aimed at Ureshino, if I’m not mistaken). And with Aki, Kokoro is perhaps a little afraid of her because she is so Senpai-like and Kokoro seemed to take offence at Aki being happy that Ureshino’s attention had shifted away from her (to Kokoro). But in both cases, I don’t think these things are serious enough to run away from the girls. So, it is like you say: she’s really built up a fear of girls.
Thankfully we have Subaru. The letter was really nice. I haven’t read the rest of the chapter yet, so I’m curious what he wants to her to see.
That must have been really tough
Between かがみ, 地球星人 and your story, it seems as if middle school is the peak age for these kinds of issues to escalate…
Here are some parts that I was having trouble with this week (page numbers for the physical bunko):
p. 143: 互いをライバルだと言ったのは自分のはずなのに、いいわけないじゃないかと思うけど、無邪気にそう聞いてくる
This is right near the start when Ureshino is constantly asking Kokoro if it’s okay if he comes with her when they’re searching for the key.
I think I managed to figure it out myself by cheating (looking it up in the English edition) and looking up some grammar online, but just to make sure, here’s how I now think it breaks down:
- In the first part 自分 is referring to Ureshino, so “he was the one who had said that they were rivals”.
- The second part seems to contain a double negative, but the じゃないか is just adding a “right?” to the bit before it. Also, Kokoro is the one doing the thinking. So it is something along the lines of “so it’s not okay (いいわけない), right, she thought”.
- In the third part I wasn’t sure who was asking who, but in the end (see below) I conclude that it is referring to how Ureshino is asking Kokoro if he can come with her. So it is something like “and yet he innocently asks her this”.
At first I was confused because the subject seems to change in each part of the sentence (Ureshino said something before, Kokoro thinks something, Ureshino asks something innocently) and it wasn’t clear to me how you can tell this from the Japanese, but I came up with the following explanation:
- The first part contains はず and that indicates that Kokoro is pretty sure about something, so that must be something that someone else did.
- The second part contains the simple verb form 思う so that must be Kokoro herself thinking something.
- The third part contains 〜てくる so this is something that Kokoro is ‘receiving’, so Ureshino is doing the asking.
Is this more or less correct?
p. 147: スバルとマサムネと一緒にいる間も、男子二人と一緒にいるところを極力、他の女子に嫌な感じに見られないようにと、気を遣ってきた
So many questions about this sentence…
The main verb I get (I think): Kokoro has come to be careful about something. And she’s careful that something isn’t seen.
But does the 他の女子に belong with the 嫌な感じ (bad feelings about the girls?) or with the 見られない (not be seen by the girls)?
And why is the particle after 感じに and not something like が?
And then there’s the first half of the sentence which seems to state twice something about being together with the two boys, which I don’t really get. Is this about Kokoro being alone with the two boys or about all of them being together with the whole group?
In other words: I could use some help breaking down this sentence.
p. 153: 目はただ前を見ているだけなのに、ぐらん、と世界が回る。
This is less complicated
This sentence is in the flashback right after 池田くん has come up to her to tell her she’s ugly. I get that the sentence is saying that even though she is looking straight ahead, the world is spinning (right?).
I was wondering about ぐらん. Is that maybe a variation of ぐらぐら?
Yes, I typed it by hand and it is indeed my mistake. It should be 思う. I probably misread because the line break is right between the kanji and the okurigana in the physical book.
Thank you for the explanations! The p. 147 one is still a bit confusing, but this is already making it clearer!
Glad she worked up the courage to go back…
Bit late, but it seems like you’ve read いい as “good” rather than “say”? I think she’s saying that “let’s go together” isn’t something that should be said after calling her a rival
These are different things.
This is describing the specific situation that causes the next thought (when she’s hanging out with subaru and masamune)
The rest is describing what she’s thinking
男子二人と一緒にいるところを - when she’s with (the) two guys
極力、他の女子に嫌な感じに見られないようにと、気を遣ってきた - to the best of her ability she took care to act in a way that the other girls wouldn’t dislike
If I had to keep all the parts, I’d translate it as something like “even when she was with subaru and masamune, she tried her best to act in a way that the other girls wouldn’t judge her for hanging out with two boys”
For me, ‘good’ still feels like a better fit than ‘say’, but you’re right that ‘say’ is also possible.
Wouldn’t that be 言うわけ in that case? I don’t think you’d use to verb stem to get the meaning you’re after. I suppose it could be 言い訳 as in there’s “no excuse” or “no explanation” for his contradictory behavior, but considering Kokoro was literally just asked 一緒に行ってもいい I think いいわけない as in “there’s no way it’s okay” makes more sense. I don’t claim to fully understand this sentence though, so I could be wrong.
Just reread it and yeah, this does make more sense