It was a delightful conversation so lots of great ideas and perspectives came about from it. I think we can just leave it at that and let the readers of the thread to make up their own minds! ^^
I know we donât talk like that but I was just illustrating that it also conveys the fact that you are doing âthatâ something everyday.
If you say âI go for a run each morningâ it is understood that you do it every morning. We can talk about technicalities but the fact remains: you are doing that action each morning. Again, I know it is not natural. If someone says that to me I know they donât have a good grasp of the English language.
My point was simply that it is understood that it is an activity you do every single morning
And this is definitely true. I agree that the understanding would be there.
My point is that there is a distinct difference, and while the message may get across, it is incorrect usage, and WaniKani should not add official synonyms that are incorrect usage (as Japanese also draws the distinction with æŻ vs ć).
I disagree with people saying thereâs a distinct difference. You could argue âeveryâ is the stronger word, but they are both ambiguous without further context.
Yes âI take a shower each morningâ could mean a specific set of mornings, but âeveryâ could as wellâŠ
âI take a shower every morningâ Every morning this week? Every morning in January?
Without context the meaning is identical.
I noticed in the new update thread - January 21 2022 Content Updates - that æŻæ has had âeach monthâ added to the allowed list, surely this would be an identical situation?
âEveryâ can refer to a specific set of mornings, but it doesnât have to because itâs a more general word that refers to groups as one item.
âEachâ must refer to a specific set of mornings to be used correctly, because it is a word that focuses on individual items.
Because of this difference in focus, which exists in Japanese as well (æŻ is different than ć), I think itâs a bad idea to introduce unnecessary ambiguity and risk mixing those two concepts up because you are (incorrectly) mixing the concepts up in English.
I donât deny that the meanings are similar, but I definitely protest describing them as the same.
I also donât deny that if somebody used âeach morningâ in that way, I would probably understand that they likely mean âevery morning.â Iâm not such a pedant that I donât understand mixing the terms up; Iâm simply giving an example of why each morning sounds odd. It sounds odd because it is incorrect.
Saying âevery morningâ doesnât ask for more context because it stresses the totality.
Saying âeach morningâ without providing more context, makes the brain start asking for context, because it stresses the mornings as individuals. I need to know what is individual or special about them. Either the act needs to not be a habitual/recurring act:
I.e.,
âI use a different soap each morning when I take a shower.â
âI have plans each morning next week.â (implies different plans on the individual mornings)
Or you need to tell me whatâs special about the individual days, like a specific set of time.
I.e.,
âI shower each morning in January.â (which might carry the implication that in other months, you donât shower on all mornings, only in January do you shower every morning. That isnât to say you donât shower during the other months, just that you donât shower every morning during the other months. Either way, itâs different than âevery morningâ because if you showered every morning, you wouldnât have to specify a time).
Since a distinction exists, I think adding an official synonym that incorrectly conflates the two would be a mistake. Ultimately, as I said above, itâs no skin off my teeth, I have burned the item. It doesnât affect me, and Iâll go on knowing that there is a difference happily. However, it would be a disservice to add a synonym that adds ambiguity to a term, imo.
@RembrandtQZulu, where I would see the difference is that months are firmly within a year. There isnât a question when âeach monthâ comes up, because it only has one possible context.
Mornings donât have that same concrete context. They can be mornings of a week, mornings of a month, or mornings of a year, for example.
Edit: Fixed inconsistency and brought everything to âmorningâ instead of âday.â Not sure why I switched the two for a moment there.
All that is written above this post.
Or⊠just add it to synonyms and move on. I donât see the problem.
I use a different soap each and every morning when I take a shower
Lolol : D
That works for me as a reasonable compromise.
I think Iâd reorder the clause to make it sound a bit more natural.
Each and every morning I use a different bar of soap when I take a shower.
I think this implies some exasperation as if it were a hassle to do so âeach and everyâ morning.
Wow I couldnât disagree more. Japanese is not English. The sooner you dissuade yourself of the idea that Japanese vocabulary items, or worse, Kanji have some sort of 1:1 relationship with English words, the better.
Donât make strawman arguments. I never claimed any of that.
I came to WaniKani to learn Japanese, but I learned English instead. Thank you!
I read them and I still disagree. Spending time memorising exact wordings used by WK is not time well spent, IMHO, and I especially disagree that user synonyms are bad. But thank you for telling me what I would or would not have done had I read stuff that I actually did read.
I didnât want to imply that @ekg claimed that Japanese and English have some sort of 1:1 mapping, but the effect of memorising exact formulations instead of meanings is IMHO exactly that youâll fall into the trap of thinking that.
I also donât understand why it would take you less time to memorise exact definitions, as claimed. My brain doesnât work like that.
Furthermore, this is the first time, I (as a non-native English speaker) hear that there is a supposed difference between âeach morningâ and âevery morningâ, so even if there is one, it has never prevented me from communicating in English, so obsessing over something so minor, instead of just adding a synonym, makes no sense to me.
Still, that is exactly what you posted. Maybe be clearer from the beginning next time? ^^;
I was never talking about the language issues. That was not the point. I think you still donât seem to get that. ^^;
I should have made it clearer that the part with âJapanese is not Englishâ is my reason for why I disagree and not part of your claim. What I disagree with is that itâs in any way useful to memorize exact WK definitions.
I donât think I misunderstood your position. I know youâre not talking about Japanese itself, but about how to use WK. I just donât think this is a good way to use WK. There are many synonyms missing, sometimes words are used that are quite rare in English (especially for non-native speakers), transitive and intransitive verbs are poorly handled (and inconsistently at that), I can never remember if I should use the noun or the verb of something for kanji meanings (is it âallureâ or âalluringâ? who knows, itâs the same meaning). And so on. I would waste a lot of time if I always failed items because of things like that.
Then we just have to agree to disagree, since I only see WK as a tool for speedily and efficiently drilling kanji + some common meanings and readings into my brain.
Itâs not a perfect tool, but doesnât need to be.
As I said, the rest can come at a later stage, from immersion learning as you realize you need to further look into stuff like alternative, less common kanji readings, or other meanings because of the media youâre currently reading, or something similar to that.
Donât make things harder than necessary for yourself when using WK. Make it fun!
But thatâs what I mean. Obsessing over exact WK formulations makes WK harder and less fun for me. YMMV, of course.
Again, we just have to agree to disagree on this one.