What will you recommend for learning Japanese grammar?

About large amount of native exposure alone, that depends on people? For most, I don’t think it is even enough.

For me, for English, that would be walking through everything in English, then stay in foreign country for minimal 1 month with minimal non-English exposure, then after leaving foreign country, revisit it for booster doses. I still do worse than some people who have less harsh exposure than me.

Ah yes, you can learn proper English better in non-English speaking countries; not always connected to frequency of going aboard.

Still, what I am doing right now is reading native Japanese material as much as possible.

If we’re still recommending resources, then I would like to mention a textbook that not many people seem to know about, or at the very least, praise.

I’m quite a big fan of An Introduction to Modern Japanese. After looking at Tae Kim’s guide all the way to half-way through Essential Grammar, about half of Genki I, and 13 lessons of Imabi, I have to say that this is what has worked best for me. I’m 10 lessons through it currently, meaning that I have 42 to go. It’s very concise, and attacks grammar and details in ways that other resources haven’t. It has yet to confuse me, even when introducing concepts that I hadn’t been privy to before.

It’s also perfect for someone like me, who wants to learn how to comprehend Japanese in both verbal and written formats to a decent level within a year. This is exactly what the book is designed for; as a 1-year intensive course in Japanese. Most of it has been review so far, but I found that for most of the lessons, about half of it was new content.

There is also a considerable amount of vocabulary that the book expects you to know every lesson, because it doesn’t provide furigana. There’s around 30 new vocab for each lesson, some of them being particles and counters. The key to this is the second book, which is actually a companion book rather than a sequel. All up, if you’re borrowing the e-book versions for 3 months, you’ll be paying about $60US. If you want to buy them, your expenses shoot up to ~$120US. Most likely, you’ll want to rent it for around a year, which comes to $50US each, or $100US. Not too bad.

That’s the first massive downside. It’s expensive. Really expensive. However, in addition to vocab, the second book also contains accompanying exercises for each lesson, and they’re quite good for the self-learner, I think. I tried some of the earlier ones, but I mostly read through the lessons and was able to absorb the content fairly well. I plan on doing the exercises soon after I get to Lesson 15 as review. For the price, I feel it’s worth it - but we don’t all have $100 to fork out on the suggestion of some guy on the internet.

The other downside is that it may not necessarily be too suitable for absolute beginners. It works fantastically if you’ve had some experience with grammar before, however - say, with Tae Kim. I personally found Tae Kim’s explanations to be lacking, and I stopped fully understanding them around half-way through Essential Grammar. For now, I’m just reading through the rest of Tae Kim so I can be exposed to all of the common beginner grammar that I’ll need to understand sooner or later, and hoping to plug the holes in knowledge with An Introduction to Modern Japanese’s much more concise yet comprehensive explanations. The first resource I learned どなた from was An Introduction to Modern Japanese! That’s pretty crazy.

Anyway, I feel that if you don’t think you’re getting anywhere with Imabi and Tae Kim’s explanations, then you should probably buy a textbook. Genki is considerably expensive as well, but the good thing is you only need to buy the first textbook to see if it’s for you. If you worked well with it, you can buy the sequel. The workbooks are your choice, too. The lessons are much longer, slower and easier, and it has a Vocabulary and Kanji section (one at the front of the chapter, one at the end of the book). Not a bad introduction to the language, most likely. But I found I only really got the most out of it when I went back to it with some knowledge from Tae Kim and Imabi. It thankfully does away with Romaji after the first 2 chapters, but I believe it still unnecessarily has furigana for everything. That’s fine, I suppose.

Back to An Introduction to Modern Japanese; I strongly recommend it from the 1/5th of the book I’ve been using so far. Explanations have really stuck, and it’s not boring, either. That’s just me. Good luck!

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I’ve read Japanese: The Manga Way and I don’t remember the romaji being annoying. The book is a great brief overview of a bunch of grammar points, and particularly illuminating on some more colloquial grammar. Sadly, it is lacking in manga.

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Good luck on getting there someday… I’m not sure how much the tickets can be from where you are, but once you arrive there are ways to stay for very reasonable money for a country with an expensive reputation. Joining the class is a good option for exposure.

A decent amount of the 20+ flights I didn’t buy the tickets for. However, the ones I did buy tickets for I usually had to buy more than one ticket for, so that stings. Last year what really stung was buying 3 tickets (to send my wife and kids over) and not getting to use any of them. Actually I did that in 2015 as well, but at least managed to pay for 3 tickets and get a company paid one during that time as well. The real secret is to shop a decent price out of some major airport out of the lower 48, then do a frequent flier deal domestically. We can try to score tickets in the $800 each range, so it’s not too awful. Since we’re out of Atlanta, it gives a lot of flexibility in that regard - there are many major airports on the way.

For the company tickets, I’ve ended up paying $3k a ticket on multiple occasion because the company isn’t smart about how they buy tickets. Such as the one time my boss said at 3pm, “I need you to fly to Tokyo tomorrow.” Though, surprisingly that wasn’t even close to the most expensive ticket.

I have the book as well and the romaji isn’t annoying unless you’re really opposed to it. The sample sentences will stack themselves so stealing one of them for an example: 好き なの? Suki na no? like/love (explain.-?) "Do you love him?" (PL2)

Next to it is the original panel, a box giving the context of the panel and characters involved, the explanation of the topic, and this one has an extra bullet for breaking down oddities related to suki and an extra breakdown of different phrasing similar to this.

Overall it’s a really good book. The above might look a bit overkill/cryptic, but it makes a lot of sense in context and it’s pretty easy to ignore what you don’t need. When I started I didn’t know most of the kanji, so the romaji was actually pretty helpful (and shouldn’t be a detriment if you know your kana anyway).

@LegendaryHero Since you’re level 1 I’ll actually take the opposite stance and suggest you avoid Tae Kim’s guide. It tends to be rather brief and even when using the app the kanji can be overwhelming for beginners. Genki at least has practice drills with it. If you’re going mobile Human Japanese is cheap, has audio, quizzes, and a good number of sample lines, but no drills (also, the first ‘book’ has no kanji).

Also, check out Japanisation Classroom. It’s a relatively new group of wk uses that chat and encourage progress. They’ve also got a resources folder you might want to check out. Japanisation Classroom new thread!

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Yeah, I just wish they used kana (or furigana) instead of romaji. It just seems odd to me. I probably will buy the book at some point though to get a different perspective on some grammar.

Tae Kim’s guide is great for grammar. Also, the whole thing online is free. About – Learn Japanese

You can see the table of contents type thing down there at the bottom of the page.

I think most of the good resources have been suggested already, so I’ll just add in my current practice method, which can be used to supplement pretty much anything (Genki, Tae Kim, etc). Hopefully someone finds it useful.

  1. Figure out which grammar point(s) you want or need to learn
  2. Read through / take notes on the grammar (I recommend notes, it helps things stick for me)
  3. Each day (or other period of time - hours? Every other day?) write sentences that use the grammar you’ve learned.
  • This shouldn’t take very long to do, depending on how much content you’re trying to write.
  • The sentences can be as simple as saying “This dog’s name is Pochi” (この犬の名前はポチです) or more complex like “Because I want to become good at Japanese, I must write these sentences” (日本語が上手になりたいので、この文章を書かなければなりません)
  • Whatever the grammar you’re learning is, use it. I also recommend using other recent grammar from the past weeks/months, but part of that comes naturally as you make progress.
  1. Try to work in some vocab learned from WaniKani (^_-)-☆
  2. Whenever you write sentences that practice grammar, especially new grammar, post them on a language exchange site or app so that natives can correct you. There’s several options, and each of them have different features.
  • the Japanese section of these forums (I think there was even a dedicated thread for corrections, but I can’t seem to find it)
  • lang-8 (site)
  • HiNative (app/site)
  • HelloTalk (app)

Currently, my schedule is like this. Please keep in mind that I’m potentially insane, so this pace is probably way too fast for sane people.

  • Sunday I learn ~7 new grammar
  • Monday-Friday I write sentences for those grammar. Some grammar can be combined into one sentence,but I try not to get too crazy with it. Whatever seems reasonable at the time.
  • Saturday I try to write a short story or essay that uses these grammar and other pieces I’ve learned recently. This is not necessary, I just want to practice writing (´・ω・`)
  • Bonus Pronunciation Practice: I’ll occasionally take a sentence that’s been through the correction step and say it out loud for a voice clip, and then post that for correction.

An easier schedule might be

  • Day 1 read 1 lesson / take notes
  • Day 2-7 write sentences with it (1-2 sentences a day)

or

  • Day 1 take notes on “Grammar A”
  • Day 2 write a sentence on “Grammar A” and take notes on “Grammar B”
  • Day 3 write sentences on “Grammar A & B” and take notes on “Grammar C”

… and so on, as long as you retire some of the grammar at some point (4~7 days might be good) so that you don’t have to write sentences for 100 pieces of grammar LOL. After some time of using it, you should be able to just naturally remember that you can use it as well as how to use it, so forced practice with it won’t be necessary.

In the end, the point is to make sure you practice using it - this is the entire point of the exercise section of textbooks, after all. I have, however, found that the guided repetition of the textbooks will only get you so far, and it feels like just mindlessly copying lines, which is pretty boring. Plus, if you finish a textbook section and don’t get to use it for a while, there’s a good chance you’ll forget about it entirely.

がんばって!
Sorry for the wall of text ( *´艸`)

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This is the thing. I sometimes feel like my tutor is slowing me down because she wants to go through so many exercises in Genki. It takes several sessions to complete a chapter. But she knows me well, and she is very experienced, plus of course she is Japanese. I guess the only way to speed things up is if I do more practice at home and she notices. I’ve started working through the exercises, writing my answers in romaji, and checking them in the answer book. It takes a lot of work and often seems repetitive but I think you need to do at least half of them before moving on. You need to spend about 10 hours on each chapter. This doesn’t sound much but for me is at least 3-4 sessions with a tutor plus homework, so about a month.

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@seanblue it doesn’t bother me at all. Sometimes I catch myself using it and then have to force myself to go back to reading the kanji/hiragana but for the most part I use the book to learn grammar and not necessarily to practice kanji (although it is a good refresher and start to using some of the kanji learned here). Overall, I just find it a lot more interesting and easier to read than Genki or Tae Kim

I was just looking at JTMW yesterday! I probably will end up getting it.

I don’t necessarily dislike Genki. I still use it. Just not for my first exposure to things. TextFugu is working for me for now, just to get me started, but I have no intention of ONLY using TF. It’s helpful for me, after learning something in TF, to go to Genki and go over the same concepts there a second time and it helps to solidify it for me. I definitely agree that TF isn’t the #1 grammar resource or anything.

Edit : Just realized I still have the Amazon tab pulled up for JTMW. Maybe it’s a sign? goes to order it

Edit 2 : I went ahead and ordered Japanese the Manga Way along with A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar since they were both Prime eligible. I’m going to continue with TF as well but I’m ready to dig deeper into the vast land of grammar. I’m excited to start it this weekend!

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This isn’t tooo insane :smiley:
My schedule right now is 5 new grammar points every day, writing sentences for the past 5 days and doing the quiz for the day 6 days back.

I write a LOT of sentences and luckily my classmates are kind enough to check them during class if I hand them a paper, rotating between 4 people to not overwhelm them or take away too much time.

Then again, I’m in Japan on a high school exchange and can study during school hours.

I spent 3 hours today figuring out the difference between ~ために、~によって and ~ことから, I hate grammar so much…

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Glad to know I’m not insane :smiley: Though I’m sure it does help a ton to have the immersion.

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I gave up on Genki and use Bunpro. It’s free, quick and easy. It’s structured, with repetition reviews like WK. I have a quick glance at the links and mainly learn as I go, in the reviews. If you get one wrong, hit the down arrow for an explanation of the grammar. Use spacebar to hide and unhide the English.

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“hopefully someone finds this useful” – I do!!! I am changing my study habits today. I have a horrible tendency to read read read the textbook/lessons without much if any practice, and forget everything. I’ve “learned” tons of grammar but speaking I only use the various particles correctly and butcher conjugations and rely on Japanese people around me to just “get it”. My study habits are so lazy that I’m basically offloading the actual grammar onto my Japanese friends, which is super lame of me. Then again they do that to me in English and it’s fine, communication ultimately trumps style. But if I want to really get there, I have to change my practice completely.

新完全マスタ-文法 日本語能力試験 is pretty good. I have been using this for my grammar lately.