What do the japanese think of cursive?

Japanese Language
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This is so wrong lol

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I honestly want to know now what you were picturing in your mind. Shorthand?

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It’s Friday guys (at least in my timezone), let’s be nice and go back to our 100+ reviews (
or is that just me :dizzy_face:). I’d hate to stop the thread as it’s kind of an interesting question to begin with :thinking:

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While the question had been bouncing around in my head for a while, the only reason I actually asked it is because of the video of the korean girl talking about her shock when she first saw portuguese being written in cursive. Hiragana actually looks a bit like cursive with its flowing lines, while korean writing looks more like a series of hard geometric shapes. So maybe it looks stranger to koreans than it does to japanese.

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It’s called “I’m thinking in print letters, but writing quickly and not lifting the pen so much”

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Where I live cursive is not used for anything you would ever need to read. Mostly product names and company names. It would have no effect on your life if you could not read it. You can still read books and documents. There is absolutely no way you can call that illiteracy.

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the cursive is honestly easier for me to read, which I didn’t expect.

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I feel like this discussion is going around in circles. I hope we can all agree on the facts:

  • Being able to produce legible handwriting is important.[1]
    In [1] they also conclude:

    In order to read and write for a variety of purposes and across contexts, students must be able to fluently recognize and produce manuscript and cursive writing.

    Mind the qualifier!

  • People who struggle with writing by hand produce lower quality texts.[2] That’s because

    unless handwriting is automated, the cognitive load required for the physical act of writing can overwhelm the system and interfere with more complex processes that require conscious thought for ideation, sequencing ideas, and monitoring of accuracy and communicative clarity

    Of course the same applies to typing. I.e., more generally:

    to generate creative and well-structured written texts, students must master the mechanical tools of getting letters, words, and sentences onto the page at a level of automaticity.

  • Also in [2] they cite Longcamp, Zerbato-Poudou, and Velay (2005) who

    found that letter recognition was better in the handwriting group [compared to another kindergarten group using typing].

    Having shown that handwriting skills are linked to the quality of text that can be produced and other higher level cognitive processes they go on to discuss handwriting styles.

  • It is highly controversial what style should be taught [3] and many different practices exist. In France they generally teach only cursive, in Mexico usually only manuscript, in Canada and the US they teach manuscript first and then later introduce cursive. [2]
    [2] find that teaching two writing styles is questionable since in their study kids who learn both styles did not perform as well as those who learn only one. However, they concede that further research is needed. They further concude that cursive is better for spelling:

    When students write in cursive, the very nature of this style allows them to memorize and recall the word unit more easily, as opposed to manuscript style all letters of one word are tied together

  • According to [4] mixed style writing is the fastest.

  • Have I mentioned that this debate is very, very long-standing? [5] Sadly, I don’t have access to that paper, it seems interesting!

  • I could’ve probably just linked this commentary (which I found LAST obviously
) Yes. That’s a fact!
    In this commentary they state that manuscript is much more prevalent than cursive.

Now, this is my opinion: Teaching a modern cursive style is valuable because of the benefits to spelling / recalling words. I believe that teaching manuscript is not necessary since students will encounter it practically everywhere. E.g. when typing on a Computer or reading any book. It’s also not so different that they will be unable to identify the letters.
However, if a student where to only learn writing manuscript, that’d be fine too. I also believe that students tend to develop their own style of writing anyway (I have a mix of cursive and manuscript without ever being taught manuscript).

PS: Wasn’t this thread about what japanese think about cursive? xD

Sources
  1. JONES, Cindy; HALL, Tiffany. The importance of handwriting: Why it was added to the Utah Core Standards for English language arts. The Utah Journal of Literacy , 2013, 16. Jg., Nr. 2, S. 28-36. (https://utahliteracy.org/uploads/journal/fall-2013/05-the-importance-of-handwriting.pdf)
  2. MORIN, Marie-France; LAVOIE, Natalie; MONTÉSINOS-GELET, Isabelle. The effects of manuscript, cursive or manuscript/cursive styles on writing development in Grade 2. Language and literacy , 2012, 14. Jg., Nr. 1, S. 110-124. (View of The Effects of Manuscript, Cursive or Manuscript/Cursive Styles on Writing Development in Grade 2)
  3. EDIGER, Marlow. Assessing Handwriting Achievement. 2001. (https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED447508.pdf)
  4. GRAHAM, Steve; WEINTRAUB, Naomi; BERNINGER, Virginia W. The relationship between handwriting style and speed and legibility. The Journal of Educational Research , 1998, 91. Jg., Nr. 5, S. 290-297. (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Naomi_Weintraub/publication/240538622_The_Relationship_Between_Handwriting_Style_and_Speed_and_Legibility/links/546d68a60cf26e95bc3cb525/The-Relationship-Between-Handwriting-Style-and-Speed-and-Legibility.pdf)
  5. GATES, Arthur I.; BROWN, Helen. Experimental comparisons of print-script and cursive writing. The Journal of Educational Research , 1929, 20. Jg., Nr. 1, S. 1-14. (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220671.1929.10879960?journalCode=vjer20)
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That doesn’t make any sense. Not being able to read a certain font does not mean you can’t read at all. Nothing of any importance is ever going to be in cursive

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Wow, well done.

You know, I was kind of with you at the beginning, but that’s going a little far. A company name is the symbol for the concept of the company. If you tell me that symbol means “google”, and now I know it means “google” when I see it, do I need to be able to sound out the G, o, o,


And if I can literally read and pronounce the “word” Google but don’t know what it is, is that any better?

That’s the opposite of “functionally” illiterate. It’s functionally literate.

I wouldn’t go that far either. If a stunningly good-looking [member of the gender I am attracted to] catches my attention at a party and slips me a hand-written note, I’m going to be super-interested in what it says, and disappointed if I can’t read it.

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”What do the japanese think of cursive?”

I didn’t know romaji had a katakana equivalent!

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

bad joke sorry. trying to lighten the mood here!! >.<

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Why does this thread remind me of Sakura? Like, a lot??

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Why does everyon think you cannot read cursive if you only learned manuscript? Sure, it’s more difficult to read, you’ll be slower. But you WILL be able to read it. (The Relationship Between Reading Manuscript and Cursive Writing)

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Dude, take a break. Now you’re arguing with people who somewhat agree with you.

I mean, you think that. Got it. Is it important for you to convince us all?

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As I said from the start, I find it hard to believe any literate adult raised in a western country would be unable to read cursive. But the thread was supposed to be about how people raised in eastern countries view cursive. I do not know enough about japanese culture to know if japanese cursive is really a thing, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t.

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So let’s say you can read cursive but you can’t write it.
Does that still mean you’re illiterate? or is that like half literacy :thinking:

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Why do you think I’m arguing with you?

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Well it’s likely different for any foreign language learner compared to grade school children. I doubt there’s a study out there to give us any definite answer on whether or not foreign language learners in general and those of asian origin in particular have any more difficulties reading cursive compared to manuscript than school children do (given they have achieved a decent level of manuscript reading skills).

Anecdotal evidence provided earlier in this thread would hint at japanese people having trouble with cursive. But the author did not state the reading skill level of those japanese students
 so really, we know nothing yet.

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“Functional illiteracy” is already “half literacy”. If you live in a country where cursive is demanded in certain settings, yes, being able to write it is a requirement for being “fully” literate. I thought that was the case in Brazil, until I googled it and realized you are allowed to use print script on college entrance exams. This is a common doubt people have so I’m not crazy in thinking it wouldn’t be allowed. I’m guessing these days, no country really demands cursive. Maybe France? But you still need to be able to read it. What are you going to do if you get a teaching job and your students write in cursive? It would be insane to tell the student he is writing wrong and has to change his style.