WaniConjugation - Practice conjugating verbs - RFC

Syphus said
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang.japan/n91snqqSJSY

Interesting relevant discussion here. Seems that this is mainly relating to only one conjugation and in many cases both forms exist. 

nadagio said.I've found this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_irregular_verbs which I'm hoping will be comprehensive with the irregular te and suru verbs.
Wow, those are very interesting to read. I guess I'll just leave it up to native Japanese speakers correcting me if/when I use these words.

BTW, going through the list, I found 10 verbs in all that are in this weird, debatable category:
属する、関する、徹する、察する、擁する、約する、罰する、達する、対する、愛する、要する

My guess is that it’s in the midst of some kind of change / regularization. This video is relevent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hibYoYwGko The first half of it talking about the changes in the English past tense, because that is likely similar to what is going n here. 

Syphus said... Long story short, it's not the potential of 見る and is a word in its own right. There are some cases where the potential is actual a different word and the actual potential form is used a bit different. Think of it how "goed" is a valid English past tense word that is never used.

If I recall 見られる is more like "able to see" versus being blind. But someone can correct me. 

I'm finding some definitions of 見えられる but I'm not sure how to articulate it into English. http://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/2835229.html place to start if you want. 

 
nadagio said... When I sorted WK vocab for verbs I looked for meanings that start with "to ", which must be how I missed 見える or 'can see'. Although now that I look at it more closely I'm baffled by its existence. As an ichidan verb, 見る's potential form is 見られる right? So why 見える? And what does its potential form 見えられる mean? Capable of being able to see? Is that really a word and how would you use it? And then there's 見せる instead of 見させる...
見る = to see. 見られる = able to see/can see. 見させる = made to see(best as I can put it)
見える = to be visible/to be seen. 見えられる = to be able to/can be seen/visible.
見せる = to show.

I also forgot to ask, is there anything about conjugating to the stem form?

The website is down at the time of writing this message.

First Update, 11/2/15:

- Fixed problem with Opera
             (doesn’t support a Javascript Array function .find() that I chose to use, changed code).

- Opera still does not have support for speech synthesis though, so you won’t be able to listen to words when clicking on them
              (I’ll work on making them less clickable-looking for those of you who can’t click to listen)

- Fixed ‘rubed’
                (although it might not update with your browser for the next day as the lists are stored locally and should only update once a day)

- Fixed -ta form and -te form of 行く, as well as -te forms of 問う’, 訪う,  請う, 乞う, and 恋う

Anzeigan, there was a moment as I was updating where it stopped working (encoding issues) but it seems to be working now. Are you still having problems?

Niwozawa said…見る = to see. 見られる = able to see/can see. 見させる = made to see(best as I can put it)
見える = to be visible/to be seen. 見えられる = to be able to/can be seen/visible.
見せる = to show.

 Thank you for the clarifications. I’ll probably add 見える once I figure out all the English translations.

Would you find it useful to conjugate just the stem? I figured that was part of conjugating to other various forms.

Still working on wrapping my head around those special suru verbs. So far I’ve decided their plain negative (nai), imperative, and potential forms may or may not change from usual suru verb depending on the word??
nadagio said... Anzeigan, there was a moment as I was updating where it stopped working (encoding issues) but it seems to be working now. Are you still having problems?

Niwozawa said...見る = to see. 見られる = able to see/can see. 見させる = made to see(best as I can put it)
見える = to be visible/to be seen. 見えられる = to be able to/can be seen/visible.
見せる = to show.
 Thank you for the clarifications. I'll probably add 見える once I figure out all the English translations.

Would you find it useful to conjugate just the stem? I figured that was part of conjugating to other various forms.

Still working on wrapping my head around those special suru verbs. So far I've decided their plain negative (nai), imperative, and potential forms may or may not change from usual suru verb depending on the word??
 The stem is covered in the polite/masu forms of the verbs. Though it can also allow a verb to become a noun/adverb. So one could probably get away with a brief explanation of it somewhere.
nadagio said... Anzeigan, there was a moment as I was updating where it stopped working (encoding issues) but it seems to be working now. Are you still having problems?

Niwozawa said...見る = to see. 見られる = able to see/can see. 見させる = made to see(best as I can put it)
見える = to be visible/to be seen. 見えられる = to be able to/can be seen/visible.
見せる = to show.
 Thank you for the clarifications. I'll probably add 見える once I figure out all the English translations.

Would you find it useful to conjugate just the stem? I figured that was part of conjugating to other various forms.

Still working on wrapping my head around those special suru verbs. So far I've decided their plain negative (nai), imperative, and potential forms may or may not change from usual suru verb depending on the word??
 if you mean
飲む ー> 飲み、飲ま、飲め etc
i think conjugating just the stems separately would not help, since the important part is remembering which stem goes with which conjugation.

if you mean just finding the verb stem as in
飲み ー> 飲み
食べる ー> 食べ
勉強する ー> 勉強し
then that might be useful
ShotgunLagoon said... if you mean
飲む ー> 飲み、飲ま、飲め etc
i think conjugating just the stems separately would not help, since the important part is remembering which stem goes with which conjugation.

if you mean just finding the verb stem as in
飲み ー> 飲み
食べる ー> 食べ
勉強する ー> 勉強し
then that might be useful
 I was thinking of things like 飲みたいです or one that's even on WK 飲み物
食べに行きませんでした、勉強したいません、遊びに行くよ.
So yeah, just finding the plain verb stem.
Syphus said... If I recall 見られる is more like "able to see" versus being blind. But someone can correct me.
 I remember reading somewhere that 見られる can mean "to be able to see" as in "to have the opportunity to see," and 見える means that something is physically visible.
nadagio said... Anzeigan, there was a moment as I was updating where it stopped working (encoding issues) but it seems to be working now. Are you still having problems?
 Nope, unfortunately still doesn't work.

"Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at waniconjugation.co.nf."

Anzeigan said... Nope, unfortunately still doesn't work.

"Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at waniconjugation.co.nf."

 Hmm. When I try to connect to a non-existent page in Firefox I get a 'Server not found' page. Right now my thought is a DNS issue? I just registered the subdomain yesterday, so the automated internet crawlers in your part of the world may not have populated the DNS tables with it yet (or however that inter-network magic happens). In case that's the issue, I'll try to think of what else it might be...
Anzeigan said...
nadagio said... Anzeigan, there was a moment as I was updating where it stopped working (encoding issues) but it seems to be working now. Are you still having problems?
 Nope, unfortunately still doesn't work.

"Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at waniconjugation.co.nf."

 It could be a hosts problem or it could be a firewall/anti-virus problem, or like nadagio said maybe it's just DNS but I am able to connect personally
it's probably a local problem on your PC, make sure that c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts file doesn't contain an entry (imo, very unlikely) for this web address, and then try disabling firewall/anti-virus software. This software can include things like windows firewall itself, your router firewall, etc, depending on what software you use each thing would have its own exhaustive tutorial so it's basically impossible (hard) to help you without touching it. You could also check out proxy settings and a slew of other things that can randomly deny access to websites from your end

Edit: As proof of concept, maybe try on your phone or a tablet first; or better yet, a computer with a lower security level such as windows XP if you have something like that

What? it’s never a hosts problem. Don’t EVER suggest that, because no casual user will ever edit this file, and thus would be one of the first things any other advanced user would check if it raised suspicions. Otherwise if it were malware, more than just your site would be affected. Again, no normal user would, nor should, edit the hosts file or be poking into that folder directory. Have them CMD traceroute the address, and establish the point of connectivity which is the issue, at either a DNS issue or whatever. If it connects fine, then it’s more likely a third-party program restricting connectivity that ignores system-level connections.

Update 2, 11/3/15:

Focusing more on UI…

- placed the verb stem and te-form at the top of conjugation tables and text inputs to conjugate them in ‘Conjugate’
        (intend to add more using these forms later)

- Japanese words don’t act clickable if you’re not in Chrome and therefore don’t have Speech Synthesis

- autofocus on first text input and ‘next’ button in ‘Conjugate’ section, can use enter key to show answer/get next word in ‘Translate’ section, can use esc key to close conjugation table in 'Verbs’


Still need to:
- fix special suru verbs
- add 見える

At some point intend to:
- add more verb forms
- add API key entry to use list of learned words for ‘Conjugate’ and ‘Translate’

Kaimera said... Don't EVER suggest that
:( *feels bad* #scolded

nadagio said..- add API key entry to use list of learned words for 'Conjugate' and 'Translate'
Unless you have a special reason (like needing individual item success stats), please just add a 'level' entry that limits by a static db value

Anzeigan, if it still doesn’t work in the next day or so and you’re willing to help debug, to use traceroute you go to Command Prompt/PowerShell in Windows and type ‘tracert waniconjugation.co.nf’ or to Terminal on Mac and type ‘traceroute -l waniconjugation.co.nf’. Networking isn’t my forte but among all the smart peeps around here I figure we can solve this eventually.

pats horusscope on the back Your intentions were good. And I had no suggestions but to ‘wait and see’. XD

horusscope said...
nadagio said..- add API key entry to use list of learned words for 'Conjugate' and 'Translate'
Unless you have a special reason, please just add a 'level' entry that limits by a static db value

 Can you clarify? Do you mean don't use WK's API or to use it in a certain way? I haven't thought about how I would implement that, yet.

I meant that since it’s avoidable it seems better to use a level entry with no api key, since you could put your level -1 if you just leveled or your current level if you unlocked most of it anyway.

I wondered about how you datamined the vocabulary after saying this, and took a look at the vocabulary lattice to discover that the single page doesn’t have any info about the item’s level… which means in order to acquire the level of every item you’d have to visit each item’s page at least once. While I could do this for you I’m not actually sure how WK would feel about getting a flood of 6000 requests.

Edit: JK, it’s reducible to six requests if you visit each 1-10 segmented page instead