My Tobira arrived a couple of weeks ago. Only one more chapter to finish Genki 2, but before opening Tobira I plan to read Yotsuba and review genki until I feel that Im really prepared for the next step. Thank you for the advices, they will be useful when I start Tobira.
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I bought it today and it looks really good and I’m super excited.
Although I gotta say… chapter 1, page 1…
did it really just show me a map of the world and ask “do you know where Japan is”
and then…
“circle your own country on the map”
(???)
I was like
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Wait whaaaaat? How? Why? I need explanation plss
WTH. That’s a really stupid thing to do. I really don’t see the point of it all. Buuuut, I’m waiting for my Tobira to arrive (it should arrive this Thursday) and seeing all the posts about Tobira. It’s making me nervous as to what’s in store for me o.O
So one thing I’m really missing in Tobira as compared to Genki is the grammar practice exercises section that came with audio.
I had put all those audio exercises into Anki and what I found was that the first couple times I would stumble through them, not be able to keep up with the speaker on the recording, but after a couple times it would get easy to the point where I was actually shadowing.
I believe this was incredibly beneficial not only for solidifying the grammar points (in the sense of actually being able to use them at conversational speed), but also for pronunciation.
I guess I could try to shadow the dialogues, but they are all so long… Has anyone found Tobira example sentence decks with audio by any chance?
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Hey Tobira users,
So one thing I noticed in the grammar explanations is that they often explain connection forms using 5 Types: “Type 1, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3.”
These 5 types refer back to a chart at the beginning of the book (page xviii). If you are like me, you looked at that chart and your eyes crossed.
But I started to feel like it was important to memorize these so that I can recognize them on sight without constantly referring back to the chart, so I decided to decode it and found out it is WAY simpler than it looks.
What isn’t immediately apparent: The whole chart is just about clarifying the differences for non-past affirmative of nouns and na-adjectives. The rest (verbs, i-adjectives, and past/negative forms of nouns and na-adj) never change:
- Verbs, い-adjectives are all the same (plain form).
- Past/Negative of な-adjectives and Nouns are always the same: じゃない、だった、じゃなかった.
Here’s the summary I wrote to myself to memorize how the affirmative non-past forms change. I’ve included “nicknames” for each based on the most common example you see (and the one used in the chart).
I thought I would share in case it’s useful for anyone else. (And of course please let me know if you notice any mistakes or anything I misunderstood)
SO, for affirmative non-past:
Type 1, 2a, and 3 are the same for ANa and Nouns:
Type 1 “だ form”
Both take だ (先生だから、便利だから)
Type 2a “な form”
Both take な (先生なので、便利なので）
Type 3 “でしょう form”
Both take nothing (先生 しょう、便利 でしょう)
For Type 2a, 2b and 2c: ANa take な. Only nouns change:
Type 2a
Both take な (see above)
Type 2b - “時 form”
ANa takes な (便利な時）
Nouns take の (先生の時）
Type 2c - “ことに気がつく form”
ANa takes な (便利なことが気がつく）
Nouns take である (先生であることが気がつく）
I’m not sure if this is a standard classification that other textbooks use, or if Tobira’s writers invented it, but I think it works really well once you get your head around it.
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Before starting a chapter I complete its vocab on memrise. Then I go through the reading at the beginning of each chapter including the dialogs. I read two pages of grammar a day for a few days. Each day I make sentences using the grammar and post them on social media where my penpals can let me know if I’m doing things right. Whenever possible, if a penpal is available, I have them do the pair-work and other exercises with me in the chapter.
Then I do the grammar workbook while I begin the vocab memrise for the next chapter. I’ve done this for 7 chapters now and I think it’s going great. I like this book a lot.
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I hated hated hated Tobira’s explanation of “〜ため(に)” in Chapter 2. The book split it into two grammar points and then was redundant (and thus super confusing) in its explanation.
So I parsed it with the explanation in DBJG (much clearer!) and made the following grammar flashcard, which cleared it up for me, and which I’m sharing in case it’s helpful for anyone! Feel free to tear me apart if I got anything wrong!
[Front]
- What are the three possible meanings of 〜ため, and what (N, Vnon-past, Vpast, い-adj, な-adj) can each be preceded by?
- What is the connection form?
- What is another thing that can come before ため?
- What does what comes after ため sometimes say about the meaning? (2 things)
- Summarize
[Back]
Three Possible Meanings:
- “because” - A more formal replacement for から or ので meaning “reason” or “cause” (when preceded by anything, but especially: Vpast, い-adj, and な-adj) – rarely used in informal conversation.
- “for the purpose of” (when preceded by N or Vnon-past)
- “for the benefit/sake of” (when preceded by N only)
Connection form 2b (Nouns take の, な-adj. take な)
Demonstrative Adjectives can also precede ため: (この・その・あの) can also come before ため, meaning either “because of this/that” or “for the sake of this/that.”
Re: what comes after:
- If you see 〜ためのN, it is meaning “purpose” or “benefit”, (not “because”).
- If the clause after ために is a non-controllable situation (i.e. “…ために何もほかの事が出来ない” – then ために is indicating reason/cause.
Summary:
-
Basically if you see any adjective or a past-tense verb with ため - it just means “because” (but more formally than から or ので).
-
If you see a noun or non-past verb with ため - it could be the same as above (“because”), but it could also be giving the purpose, especially if used ためのN. For nouns only, it could additionally mean “for the benefit/sake of” (context should be clear whether it is “for the sake of” or “for the purpose of” the noun).
(I forgot to put “same” in the connection form boxes for Vpast and い-adj just to indicate they are also just “plain” form)
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Another realization I had about Tobira:
You often hear people saying “you should study Japanese in Japanese” or “after a certain point you should stop using English to learn Japanese.”
I bought the teacher’s guide for Tobira and I want to highly recommend it for anyone trying to do more of their learning in Japanese – and especially people self-studying.
- Every grammar point is explained again in Japanese in the teacher guide, and they almost always have MORE useful information than in the body text (i.e. pointing out exceptions, showing how certain items might be confused with others, giving additional examples, etc.)
- They reprint every reading with copious useful notes, almost none of which exist in the body text in English or Japanese.
- In the back of the guide, every single reading, dialogue, and example sentence is translated into English! I can see why they left these out of the body text (better to force the student to try to comprehend in Japanese without an immediately available crutch) – but as a self-learner, just to double-check I’m not misunderstanding, this has become invaluable.
It never would have occurred to me to get the teacher’s guide for a textbook I’m using (especially for $37…) but I definitely don’t regret it, especially for using the books outside of a classroom situation.
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Almost 3 months after getting Tobira and havent started yet. Im still enjoying Satori Reader and its helping me a lot, so I will probably finish all the articles before trying Tobira. I wont lie, having no translations to check your understandings scares the heck out of me!
Thanks for posting this. I just started Tobira and was trying to wrap my head around what this chart at the beginning of the book meant, and I think I was over-complicating things.
The book initially seemed a tad intimidating to flip through, especially when comparing it to Genki. But I’ve done the first couple readings and dialogues so far, and I’ve found that any vocab or grammar I don’t understand is either explained within the text itself, or is listed later on in the chapter to learn. So it’s not terribly painful.
I haven’t been able to find any Tobira audio decks at all, but I did see this deck on Cram that contains a ton of its grammar points and explanations. Actually pretty handy for a quick review.
I think there was a thread named “How To Best Use Tobira” – I think this is the one. (I checked 
)
So, how do you best use it?
I am currently trying to translate sentences by grammar point by Chapter after remembering all vocab. (Which I think it is better than translating Autumn Prison by Chapter – because of progressive grammar and all known vocab.)
There is a deck for all Tobira vocab here https://community.wanikani.com/t/some-supplemental-material/8121. It seems to miss some vocab, though.
I also look up parallel grammar points as Bunpro tried to explain. → and then throw into Anki.
I still don’t know if I won’t burn myself out. Creating a material is tiresome.
I like it that there is no real translation to sentences, though.
Only if I could get Tobira in E-book format, so that I don’t have to type the sentences myself…
I’m far from being knowledgeable on this, but wouldn’t it be an awesome idea if you could say the sentences out loud and get them transcripted to your document? Speaking and grammar at the same time :3
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Because of this thread: How long does it take to prepare for N3 exam? I would have to ask,
How long does it usually take to finish Tobira?
Good question. I still haven’t finished Tobira!
But I passed the N3 by getting about 2/3 the way through the 日本語総まとめ books for 文法、語彙、聴解 (nihongo so matome for grammar, vocab, and listening). Japanese Graded Readers (level 5) are good additional reading and listening practice.
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A good question, because I keep coming across people who like Tobira but have never finished it. Including myself. I read the reading sections in the first 10 or 11 chapters, read the dialogues in the first 8 or 9 chapters, and answered the questions in the first 6 or 7 chapters. And, I’m picking through the grammar here and there.
I think what happens, is that by the time people get halfway through Tobira, they’re probably also reading NHK Web Easy news, trying Yotsubato or some other manga, and growing their Anki decks and trying to trudge through native material. At this point, there are so many things to read (or halfway read), that people tend to stray or slow down in their Tobira progress.
BTW, the Tobira website contains a mini Anki deck for each chapter, audio of all of the readings and dialogues, and grammar tests for each chapter. I started off by using these resources for the first chapter, but then drifted to other things as mentioned above.
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I think pgoonghang summed it up pretty well. I went through the Genki books fairly quickly since they were less dense and I was pretty reliant on them at the time. Now that I can read more, I’m going through Tobira more slowly and using a wider variety of resources. Since there are 16 grammar points per chapter, plus vocab, plus additional resources online, I’m doing a chapter roughly every two weeks. I really wanted to get through it more quickly, but rushing isn’t going to do any good if I’m not fully absorbing it.
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Thanks, so I should probably expect to complete it in like 6 months. However, it seems to be dependent on how well I absorb grammar. I am gonna use 文プロ to help with retaining grammar. I would probably also make some Anki to drill grammar.
This is also a good advice.
Did anybody get the kanji or grammar workbooks that tobira has? I was thinking about getting the grammar one since I consider that a weak point, but since I have wanikani I figured the kanji workbook wouldn’t be worth it.