The quick or short Language Questions Thread (not grammar)

Wikipedia’s got a big interesting section on the 語源 (albeit with no citations):

「せりふ」は江戸時代のはじめ頃から使われている語で、「世流布」(せるふ)が変化したもの、または「競り言ふ」(せりいう)が詰まったものだと考えられている。漢字表記には「科白」と「台詞」の二通りがあるが、どちらも当て字で、前者は「かはく」、後者は「だいし」と読むこともある。
「科白」は中国語的な表現。「科」の漢字本来の意味は「しぐさ」、「白」は「ことば」で、「科白」とは踊りや歌いを含まない、仕草と言葉のみの芝居を表す語だった。歌舞伎では「せりふ」のことを現在でも「科白」と書くことが多いが、これはとりもなおさず「歌い、舞う、伎人」であるところの歌舞伎役者が、それ以外の所作と言葉だけで舞台をつとめることが言外に言い含められた「科白」の名残りだといえる。
ただし日本語における「せりふ」が意味するのは、あくまでも「ことば」のみであって「しぐさ」は含まない。そこで必然的に「ことば」の部分のみをあらわす日本語的な表現の「台詞」が発生した。「台詞」の「詞」は「ことば」。「台」の方は、「舞台で言うことば」からの連想とも、「台帳(台本の古語)に書かれたことば」からの連想ともいわれている。

Sounds like it’s not a loan word. According to that telling, (roughly) It just has a complicated history where せりふ may have evolved from 世流布 or 競り言ふ and got applied to two different kanji words because of the Chinese meanings, 科白 with a performance connotation (I guess by way of Chinese), and then the more common modern 台詞 without the performance connotation. With the association of words said on a stage or in a ledger (since those words both involve 台).

I would imagine it’s common in katakana just because the reading is weird and it’s often said in pretty casual situations (like “hey that’s my line”).

P.S. sounds like you were watching something about the movie Dreams :slight_smile: Give it a watch! It’s really good.

Or 恥ずかしいセリフ禁止 :slightly_smiling_face:

df6a7f2f

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What’s going on here?
Screenshot 2021-09-09 at 10.09.01 AM

They have 満々な and 満々たる as separate entries. Not sure if that’s typical, but that’s the difference as indicated by the categories. たる adjectives are advanced grammar.

Do you know if there is any particular reason why Jisho didn’t list the 満々 as “Na-adjective (keiyodoshi), ‘taru’ adjective, Adverb (fukushi), Adverb taking the ‘to’ particle, Noun” in just one entry?

Jisho just displays other resources contents. It would be JMDict that has two entries. I think たる is the more appropriate one. Not sure I’ve encountered な usage for 満々. But either way, you’d have to reach out to JMDict to find out. The “Links” thing on the Jisho entry can let you get to the JMDict page and then you can find out how to contact them on that site.

Thank you!

I’m studying N2 and N1 level vocabs. There are a lot of vocabs that contain Kanji that’s not in Wanikani. Are they worth memorizing? I’ve seen many of them appear in the wild without kanji.

If you’re studying with the goal of taking N2 or N1, check if the kanji are in the jouyou set. If they’re not, you likely wouldn’t need to know the kanji for the test. They would appear with furigana or an explanatory note. They may still be worth knowing if the kanji are frequently used, but you wouldn’t need them for test purposes. You could check something like Balanced Corpus of Contemporary Written Japanese to see if the kanji usage is frequent enough to bother studying.

I’ve come across the phrase 両親に会いに行きます in my homework, and I know 会い isn’t a typo but I can’t find it on Jisho or anything like that. What’s going on here? What does it mean?

That’s the stem form of the verb 会う. It means you’re “going to meet” as in “moving towards”. Stem form / verb stem + に is a grammar point.

Also worth point out that verb stems often work as nouns so you can think of them as dynamic states of an action that was done of is going to be done, and they often appear in compound expressions as well.

It’s a fairly logical result of this, actually, IMO. The sentence is similar to 両親を合うことに行く - which makes the intent pretty clear I think.

Adding onto what leebo said, a lot appear in the wild without kanji and you shouldn’t need it for n1 if it’s not joyo. With that being said, I’ve never actually found a reliable way to tell if I’ll never see a word with kanji. ようやく is hiragana 99% of the time, but it’s such a common word that it’s inevitable you’ll come across 漸く eventually, and sometimes it’ll be lacking furigana. My suggestion is that if the jlpt is your end goal for reading, don’t bother with those kanji forms if they’re non joyo. But if your end goal is to be an avid reader, just go ahead and learn all of them with the kanji unless you’re certain it’s not used anywhere. All it takes is one person trying to be fancy and you have to read 兎に角

Ah, those early days on Japanese Sentence a Day :joy: . Yes, I was one of those people.

the WHAT ಥ‿ಥ
Well actually I think I get it.
Can I say 食べ to turrn 食べる into a noun?

I don’t think so or at least I didn’t find anything in a dictionary. However, 食べ appears in a ton of words as a “prefix” related to eating:
食べ物 - eating things (literally, that’s not the same as “food products”)
食べ方 - way of eating (manner, etc.)
食べ残し - leftovers

But to turn 食べる into a noun-like expression you can use の, こと or もの to nominalize it:
食べるの〜
For example:
食べるのが大好きだ。

You identified the pattern right in that you can say 食べに行く to say you’re going to go eat food, but these stems aren’t necessarily exactly like standalone nouns, they can just fit into grammar patterns like that or in compounds.

The [verb stem][verb 2] is a very common structure for compound verbs (that often correspond to prepositional phrases in English), and I would say (anecdotally) those verbs are more likely to be totally usable as a normal noun when the second verb is in the stem form than just a single verb on its own.
like the example @andymender mentioned
食べ残す = “to eat and leave some remanining”
食べ残し = leftovers

Completely speculating I’d say 食べ isn’t really the second verb in compounds like that or a standalone noun maybe because it feels like that would refer to the result of 食べる not the act, and there isn’t really an obvious tangible result of eating. unless you wait a day or two

I just remembered that there is the other “eating” form 食う, which can act as a standalone noun (食い - eating), but I usually saw it in the [verb stem][verb 2] combination you mentioned or in [verb stem][noun].

Good point!

I’m probably wrong about my speculation then! Jisho has plenty of ??食い examples like 立ち食い - standing and eating. There may be some kind of grammatical reason why 食い just sounds more productive in that kind of context than 食べ (or maybe it actually isn’t and 食べ’s more productive than I assumed) but I suppose it’s not that relevant anyway.