The Dark Side of the Reorder Script?


#1

The note for the lesson reordering script that warned about potential misuse made me ask: What exactly does that mean?

I imagine it means that it can allow someone to completely ignore vocab, but my plan for it is to just level up faster while still completing the whole level. I currently have a fair bit of downtime waiting for radicals/kanji to get to guru, so I’m hoping this way, I can fill that free time with the vocab.

Am I getting the downside right? And the solution being to just not ignore the vocab?


#2

No, your assumption is correct that it allows people to slack on their vocab. For many levels I was really good about getting all of my lessons out quickly, then I allowed myself to use the reorder script in exactly the manner you’re describing… but eventually, I got lazier about completing the vocab lessons at the same pace as the kanji. Nowadays instead of my vocab lessons being one level behind my kanji lessons, I’m two levels behind (sometimes even three, but I usually pump them out that same day)… which basically just means you have to remind yourself about the kanji reading/meaning during vocab lessons sometimes if you’ve forgotten. 


#3

Exactly.

Some also say it’s not good to mess with the randomness that WK has built in.  I’m not one of those.  I understand the perspective, but I think it’s a slight misapplication of the cited principal.


#4

On the other hand, I don’t think it’s a huge deal to be a little behind on the vocab lessons. I kind of think of the vocab lessons/reviews as cheating the SRS for the kanji… haha…
I mean, once you guru your kanji, you’re not “supposed to” (that’s probably not the right phrasing, but you know what I mean) see the kanji for a week, but you see them frequently with vocab if you do them right away. So all I mean is, it still follows the kanji’s SRS flow properly if you waited on the vocab. 
Ah… I wonder if that makes sense.


#5

I got a couple levels behind on my vocab. After levelling up last time I decided not to do the new lessons until I’ve cleared out all the old vocab lessons. Kinda hard because I’ve barely been home lately and I don’t have the reorder script on my phone… but I’ll get there. 


#6

Here’s the thing about the reorder script.

The FAQ/Guide mention a bit of memory science, a long term memory steroid, known as interleaving. It works alongside the SRS. By using the reorder script you are eliminating interleaving and cheating yourself out of something you paid for–a further boost in Japanese vocab retention.


#7
LogicalPhallusy said... Here's the thing about the reorder script.

The FAQ/Guide mention a bit of memory science, a long term memory steroid, known as interleaving. It works alongside the SRS. By using the reorder script you are eliminating interleaving and cheating yourself out of something you paid for--a further boost in Japanese vocab retention.
 That's the cited principal I was referring to in my post.  I can see why they think that's what the interleaving principal is talking about, but if you read the science literature carefully, I think they're slightly off the mark.  But that's just my opinion.

#8

Man would I like to try out that reorder script…but unless I have missed something, you can’t use scripts on mobile devices (iPhone in this case), can you?  I often think about all the time I lose on kanji that are sitting all the way at the bottom of a big ol’ pile of vocab…every hour it takes me to dig through (because I often have to do reviews a few minutes at a time) is an hour (or a day) longer before that kanji gets to guru. 

(I can’t wait to get a new laptop. Just having an actual keyboard might cut review tike in half.)


#9

Please let me know if you can use re-order script on Mobile Allicrab (iOS) or WaniKani mobile (Android). I have both iPad and Android phone. Currently, my MacBook is broken.


#10
Caracal said.(I can't wait to get a new laptop. Just having an actual keyboard might cut review tike in half.)
 This is true. I actually plan to get myself a bluetooth keyboard or iPad/Andoid. That is because I can speed-type, looking at the computer screen only.

#11
patarapolw said...     This is true. I actually plan to get myself a bluetooth keyboard or iPad/Andoid. That is because I can speed-type, looking at the computer screen only.
 Does anyone under the age of 70 look at the keyboard when they type?

#12

Yeah i’ve had vocab lesson pileup happen twice cus of this, so here’s what I do to deal with it:

I do the radicals and kanji lessons first to make time (but i try to take my time to absorb the kanji so i dont just flunk the first few reviews and lose time) and then do vocab lessons up until i hane between 175 to 200 stuff in apprentice, then I leave it.

also i have my lesson batch set to just 3 to make it as underwhelming as possible to get myself to do a few lessons at a time if i need that encouragement.

^^ Caracal You might consider anki mode script as well, which is exactly what it sounds like. I used it to clear out my giant review pile up during my slump in december, and now I cant stop using it it’s so convenient lol


#13
Leebo said...
patarapolw said...     This is true. I actually plan to get myself a bluetooth keyboard or iPad/Andoid. That is because I can speed-type, looking at the computer screen only.
 Does anyone under the age of 70 look at the keyboard when they type?
 Um, yeah. I do. Along with, in my experience, the vast, vast majority.

#14
patarapolw said... Please let me know if you can use re-order script on Mobile Allicrab (iOS) or WaniKani mobile (Android). I have both iPad and Android phone. Currently, my MacBook is broken.
 That's a "no" for AlliCrab on iOS, though it does have a few scripts you can toggle on/off in settings (Jitai by obskyr, WaniKani Override by ruipgpinheiro, WaniKani Double Check by Ethan, WaniKani Improve by Seiji, Markdown Notes by rfindley and WaniKani Hide Mnemonics by nibarius).

#15
riccyjay said...     Um, yeah. I do. Along with, in my experience, the vast, vast majority.
 The vast majority of... all people? I went to school back when they still had to teach us typing because it wasn't a given that people even had computers at home. Nowadays, kids are typing from super early ages, they can't all be hunting and pecking. 

#16

Regarding the use in lessons, I don’t think you’ll end up messing up with anything, unless you start doing obvious reckless things, like piling up hundreds of vocab, or completely ignoring them.  That said, for me, one of the most useful parts of the reorder script is the use in lessons, since I can smooth my daily workload without compromising my ability to level up fast.

About the use in reviews, this is part personal experience/opinion and a general comment. If you abuse the reorder script, you might end up creating some bias when memorizing things. Back when I started using this script, I used to review items starting from the highest leveled ones (i.e. the most recently learned) and, by the way, also in small chunks. It took many many levels to notice that doing reviews this way, I was unconsciously linking items of the same level and SRS status. In other words, I was starting to “feel” that a certain word had a specific meaning because I was continuously seeing other words from the same level/SRS together, over and over again, which is obviously not desirable.

I later noticed that reviewing big (but not overly big) chunks of random items is much better. Besides keeping that bias at a minimum, It’s way easier on your mind, since since you alternate “harder” new items, with “easier” older ones (which are already established on your memory).

I still like to separate radicals, kanji and vocab on my reviews and frankly speaking, I don’t feel any difference doing reviews this way. Also, I don’t think you’ll mess up with anything by prioritizing the radicals and kanji critical for leveling up faster.


#17
Leebo said...
riccyjay said...     Um, yeah. I do. Along with, in my experience, the vast, vast majority.
 The vast majority of... all people? I went to school back when they still had to teach us typing because it wasn't a given that people even had computers at home. Nowadays, kids are typing from super early ages, they can't all be hunting and pecking. 
USA, was in grade school through the late 1990s. Typing was required curriculum. Then it was required again in middle school. Twice. Then i took it in highschool as an elective.

Are schools not like this anymore?

Edit: autocorrect anti-grammar
 

#18
riccyjay said...
Leebo said...
patarapolw said...     This is true. I actually plan to get myself a bluetooth keyboard or iPad/Andoid. That is because I can speed-type, looking at the computer screen only.
 Does anyone under the age of 70 look at the keyboard when they type?
 Um, yeah. I do. Along with, in my experience, the vast, vast majority.
 How long do essays and papers take you?

#19
LogicalPhallusy said...
Leebo said...
riccyjay said...     Um, yeah. I do. Along with, in my experience, the vast, vast majority.
 The vast majority of... all people? I went to school back when they still had to teach us typing because it wasn't a given that people even had computers at home. Nowadays, kids are typing from super early ages, they can't all be hunting and pecking. 
USA, was in grade school through the late 1990s. Typing was required curriculum. Then it was required again in middle school. Twice. Then i took it in highschool as an elective.

Are schools not like this anymore?

Edit: autocorrect anti-grammar
 
 i remember typing being required in middle school in the mid 2000's, so by my time it had not changed. I guess it's no longer a thing?

#20

I never meant to suggest that I know it’s not a thing now, just that I know they taught us typing 20 years ago. But if a majority of people don’t learn it now, they must have stopped at some point.