Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 1, chapter 2

[anon99047008]

[Details=Page 3, Panel 5-6]

@mariodesu

• なでよう → “to pat” in the volitional form. ‘Let’s pat’ doesn’t fit into the english translation but I guess it would be the most accurate translation of that verb standalone? I’m a bit confused but I guess it’s because in english (and Italian) other words are needed to make the volitional while Japanese has it built in the word.
• としたら → “After (when) you tried” this is the ‘tara’ conditional of とする. Now, I can’t really put this together with a volitional, it sounds too weird. “…after you tried wanting to pat…”? Wth? Maybe I’m missing something.

You got the tranlsation and intended meaning correct on your own, so well done there. ～ようとする is actually a grammar point on its own, so that might help you fill in the gaps you may have in your understanding!

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[Details=Page 4, Panel 6]

@mariodesu

Note: is the progressive 見学してる describing a continuous action or a state of being?

I would say it is a state of being, because, where it’s a verb directly preceding a noun, it is modifying the 女の子 to say they are in the state of 見学してる.

@mariodesu

• 痛いらしい → “seems to be sore” this is the first time I encounter the helper adjective らしい and I’m not really sure how to tell if it’s attaching to the adjective 痛い or to the whole subsentence “腹が痛い”
• (literal) ”As for the menstrual cycle, the belly seems to be sore/aching/painful” (totally not sure of this translation)

One way to look at らしい is that it is often used in situations where the speaker is passing on information from a source besides themselves. This source could be a textbook, another person, or anything like that. I would also say it kinda modifies this entire sentence and not just the 痛い. It basically modifies everything before it, in the instances I’ve run into it.

Either way, while you can say, “Seems like～” for らしい, another English interpretation could be, “I have heard～” or “Apparently～”

With that in mind, a more natural translation:

“Apparently (or I have heard that), menstruation is a pain in the stomach.”

(Which is like, a super simplification of what menstruation is, but they are middle school boys, so they wouldn’t really have all the info, unless sex-ed is actually thorough in explanations over there, which would honestly surprise me.)

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[mariodesu]

Chapter 2, page 6

Panel 1

• 「見学の理由は聞かないでおこう…触れてはいけない気がする…」
• 見学の理由は → “As for the reason of (doing) study by observation”
• 聞かないでおこう → “Let’s leave it unasked (/ let’s leave it [as it is] without asking)” ? This was tough to assemble in my mind… it’s the most literal translation I can get, I’m not sure it’s correct tho.
• 触れてはいけない → “cannot mention” here we have a grammar point, 〜てはいけない that implies ‘cannot do’ or something like this. It describes the sequent verb
• 気がする → “have the feeling/ sensation”
• ”As for the reasons (…), let’s not ask… I have the sensation I cannot touch this subject.”

Panel 2

高木:

• 「なんで今日見学してるかって」
• なんで → “why” (何で)
• って → “you say?” Or something like this. It should be a direct quote, quoting all that comes before.
• ”Why today I’m studying by observation, you say?”

西片:

• 「聞こえてんのかよ！！」
• 聞こえてん → “be heard/audible” this is the progressive form of 聞こえる contracted, even tho once again I don’t get why it’s used the present and not the past tende
  のか → just nominalizing and questioning (I guess)
• ”Is it that I was audible!!’!!” (as in asking to himself ‘did I just say that aloud while I thought ai was thinking!?’)

Panel 3

• 「じゃあ、私西片のケガのこと当てたんだから、あててみてよ。」
• there is an implicit topic marker は after this
• 西片のケガのこと → “The thing of Nishikata’s injury” I guess there’s a dropped を particle after this, since the sequent verb is transitive
• んだから → の + だから (i think…)
• ”So, since I guessed the thing (the reason) of your hand’s injury, ??? ”
  I don’t have a clue of what the second part is once again

[mariodesu]

Thanks for the answers! everything noted, no doubts left on that

[anon99047008]

[Details=Page 6]

@mariodesu

聞かないでおこう → “Let’s leave it unasked (/ let’s leave it [as it is] without asking)” ? This was tough to assemble in my mind… it’s the most literal translation I can get, I’m not sure it’s correct tho.

I think you’ve got it.

It is 聞かないでおく in volitional form. Have you seen the ～ておく construct yet?

@mariodesu

聞こえてん → “be heard/audible” this is the progressive form of 聞こえる contracted, even tho once again I don’t get why it’s used the present and not the past tende

It’s a case of state of being again, I think. “Am I (in the state of being) audible?”

It’s not past tense because he is likely concerned she can hear him even on this moment, because he gets paranoid and flustered.

@mariodesu

あててみてよ

This is the part you don’t follow, right?

This is:

当てる = “to guess”

てみる = grammar point, formed by putting a verb into て form and adding みる (当ててみる), which means “to try to do verb”. It has been put into て form as well, to form a request (あててみてよ)

The よ is just emphasis, as usual.

Putting that together with the part of the sentence you did understand:

“So, since I guessed the reason of your hand’s injury, try to guess (implied: why I’m studying by observation).”

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[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

It is 聞かないでおく in volitional form. Have you seen the ～ておく construct yet?

Yes, today it took me 2 hours on the clock to understand this and the differences between ないで and なくて

@anon99047008

It’s not past tense because he is likely concerned she can hear him even on this moment, because he gets paranoid and flustered.

yes, good old nishikata
Anyway, thinking about it as a state of being helps a lot!

@anon99047008

てみる = grammar point, formed by putting a verb into て form and adding みる (当ててみる), which means “to try to do verb”. It has been put into て form as well, to form a request (あててみてよ)

Now it’s clear, I actually watched a CD video on this てみる point and totally forgot about it. Also - this is the 4th time I encounter the て for for requests and don’t recognize it…

[anon99047008]

It’ll stick eventually. Anything with て can take some extra time just because it has, like, a million and one uses, and in casual speech, you have to worry about things being dropped and such.

A pretty good rule of thumb is that if a verb ends in just て form and is at the end of a sentence with nothing (or just a sentence ending particle like よ or ね) following it, the likelihood that it is a request is very, very high.

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

A pretty good rule of thumb is that if a verb ends in just て form and is at the end of a sentence with nothing (or just a sentence ending particle like よ or ね) following it, the likelihood that it is a request is very, very high.

I will keep this well in mind🤞

Let me ask you a suggestion - do you think that at my current level I can suspend translating and posting everything bit by bit? I ask because I see the positive sides of doing it - for example it exposes the mistakes in translating grammar.
You now know pretty well my current level and if you think I can have benefits by keep doing this, I will, otherwise I will start posting only things I’m concerned about (this way I can speed up reading).

[anon99047008]

Sort of a tough one; I am all for speeding up reading a bit, because that’s when it starts to feel even more fun, but I definitely understand the desire to maybe avoid potential grammar mistakes.

I would say, overall, when you have interpreted the grammar on your own, you haven’t made very many mistakes at all. Most of the notes I’ve made have just been to give you more information whenever you have expressed that maybe you don’t feel like you completely get it

With that being the case, I think that posting the things you have questions about or don’t feel 100% confident in for one reason or another, while just moving past the things you feel relatively confident that you understand what’s happening, is likely a good idea. This will also help you get closer to what we have talked about before: just understanding the text without necessarily having to fall back to translating to do so.

Edit: And of course, if you try this and decide that you still want the benefit of line-by-line translation, you can always go back to doing so until you feel more ready. Either way you take, we will all be here and happy to answer whatever comes up. (Though, work is supposed to pick up next week for me, so I’ll likely be a bit less active when that happens. I’ll still be on, my responses will just be less often.)

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

This will also help you get closer to what we have talked about before: just understanding the text without necessarily having to fall back to translating to do so.

Thanks for your advice, I will happily follow it!
I’m beginning to notice that sometimes (very rarely and with very simple stuff) I will just read the sentence and simply understand it. It’s a very minor thing tho, but it feels so good.

Here’s a small doubt I have on page 6, panel 1,

そんなあいまいなのダメだよ
I’m translating ダメだ simply as “is bad” (not good, etc…) but dictionary says it can be used as a negation. I guess it’s not important how I translate it, but if I get it’s true meaning in Japanese, that is something along the lines “no good”…? Correct me if I’m on the wrong line of thought.
So the sentence would mean (literally) “ambiguous like that is not good (not right, try again)”

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

Either way you take, we will all be here and happy to answer whatever comes up. (Though, work is supposed to pick up next week for me, so I’ll likely be a bit less active when that happens. I’ll still be on, my responses will just be less often.)

I appreciate it a lot If time lacks, no worries Just keep in mind that the help I received in this book club has been of great worth and helped me really a lot!

[anon99047008]

Seeing ダメ as closer to “no good” is actually perfect. In fact, Japanese even has an acronym they use in place of ダメ sometimes: NG, which literally stands for the English, “No good.”

[mariodesu]

This is also a part giving me problems - I don’t have any clue of what 別にいいよ means.
知りたくない should be しる + たい (in the negative) = don’t want to know.
What is 別に and why is there the よ particle in the middle of the sentence?
“I don’t really (いい use…?) want to know (it)”…?

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

NG, which literally stands for the English, “No good.”

I nailed it!

[anon99047008]

別にいい is short for 別にいいけど, which is an expression meaning, “I don’t care; fine, whatever”

How I think the expression breaks down, if you are interested:

別に = (not) particularly

いい = good

けど = grammar point, similar to but in English

So, “It’s not particularly good, but… (I don’t care; whatever; go ahead; whatever flavor of the expression best fits the context)”

In this context, I would assume it is “I don’t care. I don’t want to know.”

[mariodesu]

Clear, and I also bet there is a small pause after the よ that had been left intended (no commas or …)

Doubt on panel 3 of page 6:

Takagi-san says “ じゃあ 私の勝ちでいい？I sensed that this means “so… it’s good that the victory is mine?” but the merit was having a flashback of the anime. Grammar structure here is easy but I always miss the purpose of that damn で particle I read the tofugu article two times but I still can’t get it. What is this particle doing here?
Doubt. And if it wasn’t the で particle but just the conjunctive form of だ? It would make sense (to me), because it would literally be “so… is my vistory, good (for you)?”

[anon99047008]

It is another form the ていい/てもいい grammar point we talked about before, so viewing it as the だ becoming conjunctive is likely accurate.

Edit: actually, on reflection, it’s the で particle, which has a lot of uses. It doesn’t make sense for it to be conjunctive here. I apologize.

Edit the second: No. Nevermind. I should have trusted my gut. I lean to it being conjunctive. (Sorry, I’m indecisive because で is one that throws me as well)

Somebody else asked about this at some point too, and this was my answer to them (click the arrow for the spoilers to show up. Preview just hides them):

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でいい is essentially asking if it is okay. If I were to translate it with that nuance in mind or perhaps , the latter of which retains the Japanese word order at the cost of not sounding quite as natural in English. Maggie-sensei has a good article on でいい/でもいい/がいい that might help you out. Also, welcome to the book club! I hope you have tons of fun learning with Takagi-san!

[mariodesu]

I think it was too soon to start reading by myself, too many doubts

わかったよ！ → I got it!
当てればいいんだろ！！→ ? “If I guess (the answer), it will be good, I hope!!” This sounds weird and I don’t see the meaning, but can’t do any better here

[anon99047008]

ばいい is a grammar point that roughly means “should do～”

More literally, “If I do～then it’s good,” so you do have the right meaning. It just sounds odd in English, so we would translate it as “should do”

[shuly]

@mariodesu

I think it was too soon to start reading by myself, too many doubts

don’t sweat it…you’re doing fine…as long as you grasp the meaning that’s what matters…there are plenty of things that don’t translate directly/neatly into English. Don’t think it’s too soon… if you are feeling overwhelmed … recommend slowing down before you burn out… 1 chapter a week…work up to a faster pace…I’m sure you’ll catch up to the main club eventually … but there’s no rush

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

Sorry

I see it’s one of those things that take years and years to understand clearly

@anon99047008

Somebody else asked about this at some point too, and this was my answer to them (click the arrow for the spoilers to show up. Preview just hides them):

Just checked it, it helped! (Also I have to use the search function more!

@anon99047008

ばいい is a grammar point that roughly means “should do～”

More literally, “If I do～then it’s good,” so you do have the right meaning. It just sounds odd in English, so we would translate it as “should do”

This point thanks to CD was very easy, it was more the Nishikata answer that felt weird and I’m still not sure. Is he saying that as “okay okay, I’ll guess, I hope you’re happy.” or, more something like “ok, I hope my guess will be good” but this second is weird because he already knows the answer, he just doesn’t want to tell her