Oh FFS already

Can you guys make a style guide or something and then stick to it? Does a transitive verb need me to say “to X something” or not?

建てる: “to build something” → wrong
足す: “to add something” required, cannot leave off “something”

While we’re at it, can we make the counters be consistently “counter for X” so I don’t have to guess whether it’s “X counter” or “Xes”?

/rant

also when is wanikani going to teach all the words

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Alternate thread title: to complain about something

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Not that this helps, but I was curious of the statistics…

There are 531 vocab marked as “transitive verb” on Wanikani.
Of those, only 80 contain “something” in at least one of the accepted meanings.
Which leaves 451 that don’t accept answers containing “something”.

I’m assuming that, in many cases, the English-equivalent verb is also transitive-only (e.g. 入れる), which would make ‘something’ unnecessary… but should still probably accept “to X something”.

There may also be cases where “to X something” (or some variant) wouldn’t make sense. I haven’t explored much of list, so I don’t know.

If anyone is interested in diving deeper down the rabbit hole, here is the list of transitive verbs that don’t accept ‘something’:

Click to open

入れる, 出す, 正す, 生む, 立てる, 切る, 引く, 用いる, 見る, 見せる, 見分ける, 写す, 打つ, 申す, 交ぜる, 考える, 作る, 直す, 思う, 食べる, 付ける, 失う, 教える, 支える, 助ける, 決める, 投げる, 買う, 数える, 話す, 使う, 始める, 乗せる, 待つ, 送る, 配る, 習う, 運ぶ, 飲む, 聞く, 読む, 調べる, 伝える, 放す, 注ぐ, 指す, 追う, 流す, 消す, 着る, 思い出す, 見直す, 曲げる, 当てる, 見付ける, 投げ付ける, 化かす, 見送る, 返す, 見返る, 落とす, 歌う, 手伝う, 好む, 育てる, 追いかける, 殺す, 選ぶ, 養う, 囲む, 折る, 望む, 約束する, 信じる, 建てる, 悲しむ, 取る, 守る, 急ぐ, 書く, 治す, 浴びる, 辞める, 着ける, 温める, 起こす, 映す, 残す, 固める, 察する, 干す, 借りる, 切り取る, 取り出す, 告げる, 報じる, 忘れる, 書き入れる, 書き直す, 洗う, 焼く, 祈る, 許す, 履く, 得る, 比べる, 倒す, 妨げる, 被る, 犯す, 産む, 防ぐ, 加える, 乱す, 減らす, 続ける, 務める, 設ける, 断る, 責める, 省く, 認める, 企てる, 脱ぐ, 営む, 示す, 観る, 吸う, 割る, 裁く, 備える, 導く, 張る, 呼ぶ, 担ぐ, 祝う, 触る, 量る, 述べる, 限る, 供える, 抜く, 与える, 含む, 渡す, 訴える, 補う, 巻く, 捜す, 絞る, 掛ける, 替える, 飛ばす, 確かめる, 増やす, 解く, 断つ, 現す, 載せる, 刺す, 励ます, 占める, 届ける, 差し上げる, 担う, 振る, 突く, 貯える, 造る, 過ごす, 捕える, 見抜く, 抜き出す, 招く, 取り替える, 極める, 締める, 織る, 訪ねる, 誘う, 貸す, 迫る, 攻める, 移す, 絶つ, 促す, 壊す, 見極める, 添える, 略す, 診る, 詰める, 請ける, 冷やす, 延ばす, 押す, 撮る, 照らす, 盗む, 越える, 預ける, 飾る, 構える, 訪れる, 思い詰める, 見詰める, 絶やす, 編む, 除く, 尋ねる, 掃く, 救う, 探す, 迎える, 採る, 飼う, 捨てる, 染める, 秘める, 訳す, 漏らす, 越す, 閉める, 垂らす, 操る, 暮らす, 盛る, 納める, 裏切る, 恐れる, 迷わす, 積む, 驚かす, 乾かす, 散らかす, 離す, 追い越す, 傷つける, 投げ捨てる, 込める, 申し込む, 書き込む, 汚す, 詰め込む, 吐く, 拝む, 薦める, 勤める, 承る, 刻む, 盛り上げる, 蒸し返す, 装う, 測る, 破る, 払う, 吐き出す, 変える, 摘む, 継ぐ, 踏む, 償う, 募る, 執る, 崩す, 戻す, 聴く, 遣う, 恵む, 抱く, 掲げる, 葬る, 乗り換える, 繰る, 避ける, 致す, 懸ける, 扱う, 描く, 託す, 贈る, 賄う, 伸ばす, 及ぼす, 燃やす, 換える, 払い戻す, 取り戻す, 狙う, 雇う, 免れる, 勧める, 埋める, 奪う, 慎む, 拒む, 譲る, 繰り返す, 傾ける, 取り扱う, 称える, 緩める, 逃す, 顧みる, 唱える, 戒める, 褒める, 埋め合わせる, 伺う, 包む, 侵す, 括る, 揚げる, 握る, 揺る, 紛らす, 裂く, 襲う, 刷る, 慰める, 滅ぼす, 揺する, 泊める, 焦がす, 忍ぶ, 叱る, 釣る, 引き裂く, 呪う, 眺める, 賭ける, 磨く, 見逃す, 吹き込む, 薄める, 取り逃がす, 吹き飛ばす, 合わせる, 荒らす, 擦る, 零す, 鍛える, 瞬く, 湿らせる, 砕く, 欺く, 恨む, 憎む, 扇ぐ, 炊く, 澄ます, 蓄える, 辱める, 彩る, 溶かす, 耐える, 培う, 塗る, 殴る, 悟る, 刈る, 刈り取る, 謀る, 隔てる, 諮る, 仰ぐ, 搬送, 哀れむ, 脅す, 悔やむ, 遂げる, 演ずる, 見返す, 覚える, 逃がす, 見渡す, 欠かす, 語る, 放つ, 愛する, 指差す, 降ろす, 植える, 整える, 心得る, 狭める, 手渡す, 召す, 挟む, 浸す, 耕す, 覆う, 頂く, 怠る, 貫く, 召し上がる, 据える, 枯らす, 沸かす, 虐げる, 諭す, 卸す, 貫き通す, 逸らす, 伏せる, 惜しむ, 憂える, 据え付ける, 鎮める, 搾る, 縛る, 縫う, 弔う, 漬ける, 遮る, 醸す, 凌ぐ, 濁す, 酌む, 侮る, 堪える, 紡ぐ, 蔑む, 詠む, 唄う, 慕う, 収める, 知る, 禁じる, 増す, 間違える, 叩く, 諦める, 捉える, 濡らす, 羨む, 絞める, 蹴る, 苦しめる, 痛める, 従える, 帰す, 預かる, 口にする, 噛む, 苛める, 煎る, 苛む, 癒す, 酌み交わす, 詠う

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I thought I read somewhere that it’s a current/ fairly new initiative to become consistent with adding the “something” to the acceptable answers. Maybe there’s the disconnect because the work is ongoing?

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Interesting. How many require the “something”, as in, there are no acceptable answers without it? Maybe I’ve discovered the only one by accident in 足す.

I don’t actually mind either way. I have always mentally added the “something” (when it makes grammatical sense) to keep the transitive and intransitive verbs straight. I just want to have some sort of accepted style and not have to remember individual items’ quirks to get the answer right.

(If it’s only one though, I’ll just add a synonym and move on. I think I did that long ago with the counter ones that were annoying me).

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Exactly half, i.e. 40.

[editing… oops, my query has an error. 1min…]

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I’ll say that stronger/differently. I like it! Just, someone’s got to decide if it’s required/optional, permitted/not permitted and be consistent about it.

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I’ve had so much pain with 力一杯! I entered with one’s all might or something and it marked it as wrong ;-;.

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Update… I was right – though only by coincidence – about 40 vocab requiring ‘something’.

The List

上げる, 下げる, 分ける, 止める, 行う, 売る, 受ける, 開ける, 集める, 拾う, 代える, 回す, 求める, 保つ, 動かす, 試みる, 試す, 混ぜる, 表す, 済ます, 隠す, 挙げる, 並べる, 傷める, 削る, 沈める, 煮る, 足す, 向ける, 点ける, 通す, 寄せる, 退ける, 転がす, 進める, 改める, 広げる, 終える, 欠く, 外す

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Oh yeah, definitely failed that one before for just that reason.

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This kind of stuff is why I use Anki mode for meanings.

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How long has the work been ongoing? How long would it take for one person to go through all of these verbs and add “something” where needed? Even going very slow, no longer than 5 days tops.

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Yeah and since rfindley helpfully provided a list, I can just do the same thing with user synonyms. I can’t be the only one annoyed by this though.

Which gives me an only-somewhat-related thought - can a user script programmatically add or remove a whole prepared set of synonyms? If so, there could be a transitive verb patch, a counter patch, a “romaji for well-known japanese words” patch, etc.

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I’m not a script maker, but dont we already have a script that adds in popular user synonyms? Even if not, I dont see why modifying the user synonym area would be too hard, unless there’s technical issues

Or even better, someone could write the style guide I hypothesized in the original post, share it, then make a single patch to make WK accepted answers conform to it all in one swoop.

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Are you sure 足すrequires “something”? I have always typed “to add” and was never marked wrong. Maybe it has been changed in the past couple months?

As a native English speaker, I feel none of these need “something” for their definition. “To add”, “to build”… obviously you are adding or building something. I’m pretty sure I have never typed the “something” in any wanikani meaning.

Both build and add are both transitive and intransitive in English, there is not always a “something” (an object) required. In Japanese, though, you have different words for the transitive and the intransitive variations. So it does make a difference.

I do wish transitive/intransitive pairs both had something different in them, rather than some just be " to x"

Like, if all were “to x something” vs “to be x”. I know some are but a lot arent so its just a mess to me to remember

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yes, consistency would be really helpful!

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