I think heās so passionate about this because these ideas are transformative for a lot of people in shifting from the school method of āIām going to learn all the grammar and then start using the languageā to āIām going to use the language and learn what I need as it becomes relevantā mentality.
I agree with a lot of what he says about putting energy into using a language from the start, speaking without fear of making mistakes, etc, but I disagree with his repetition that grammar is a waste of time.
He buries a great point at the very end of the video - if you are using a language (reading, writing, listening, speaking), then itās incredibly effective to have seen some patterns that way - but then if you add some grammar instruction to that - itās magic! Suddenly, you have a rule to fit onto something youāve noticed anyway.
These ideas are most relevant to related languages. The thing is - with his prime example - German grammar is sooooo close to English grammar. He seems to think his problem with Arabic is the vocab, and Iām sure part of that is true because of the lack of so much overlap, but if itās anything like how different English and Japanese areā¦ a lot of vocab IS grammar, because the vocab is used soo differently than itās counterpart in English.
So from personal experience Iād say, yeah, a native English speaker can immerse themselves and learn just about any European language in 6-8 weeks. (I donāt mean reading by immersion - I really mean living there and avoiding English for those timescales). But that just isnāt enough for Japanese. Youāll need some kind of āhereās whatās going onāā¦ along the way to speed up what you learn from immersion.
I was also a bit sceptical about his point of view at first because of this (English vs German), but then I checked out the rest of his channel and found a video of him speaking perfect Japanese to a Japanese polyglot (and then fell into the rabbit hole and watch that Japanese person talk all his language to strangers, super entertaining but didnāt get a lot of reading done yesterday )
lol, amazing rabbit hole. For sure heās an impressive guy
Iām not saying I disagree or it doesnāt work, and people like him have helped a lot of people like me get away from the ineffective language learning techniques we were taught at school. Iām just highlighting the buried point that presupposing you are interacting with the language a lot, then learning some grammar in that context can be a good use of time and shortcut some of the immersion time needed to pick up on the nuance
That is exactly what I thought. Iām Dutch and English, German and French grammar were never a big issue to learn. Japanese feels like unlearning everything you know about language and start from scratch again I donāt speak Spanish but I think it would be much more easier to learn Spanish grammar mostly by immersion like the guy in that video explains than it is for Japanese grammar.
You simply need a source which explains their rules and then lots of practice and immersion to really let it sink in.
I went through N5 and N4 on Bunpro pretty fast, did that in 2 months or so. Itās when I started doing the drills that I realized that many points and nuances werenāt really clear to me at all. Especially when you combine multiple grammarpoints things get confusing very quickly.
In another video he says its important to do the thing you enjoy doing so if someone enjoys studying grammar more than solely reading and listening that may be the best way for them to learn the language maybe. i guess its no good thinking iām just going to do immersion but then not enjoying that and stopping doing it or doing it for such a short amount of time that one cant make any progress
I get super mad whenever i do bunpro reviews and they fucking use 3-4 grammar points at the same time. Its especially frustrating after learning a new grammar point and now you have to do it in passive progressive past negative sonkeigo formā¦ like FUUUUCK
Yes thatās superfrustrating, especially since those other grammar points are not explained and finding an answer for them can be a pain. Itās too much when you just learned a grammar point that you sometimes have to combine it with multiple other grammar points.
When I really, really couldnāt figure something out myself I asked around on the forum and thankfully there are a lot of people helping out there. But for me itās one of several weak points of Bunpro.
If something really frustrates you it will only hinder you - maybe set the Bunpro reviews to Anki mode for a while and try some other ways of learning and reviewing grammer.
If youāre learning N5 and N4 I can really recommend Renshuu. The lessons there are so well explained. I did Bunpro, Cure Dolly, Tae Kim and several other guides but Renshuu made quite some grammar points much more clear to me. Especially the difference between kind of similar grammar points, like the 2943 ways of saying āseems likeā, really clicked for me after doing those lessons.
Also - although you have seen this recommended endlessly by now - Satori reader. Reading is the way to really get familiar with grammar, the explanations are great and if needed the owner really takes time to explain any questions in the forum each chapter has.
It just makes me want to punch the wallā¦
I kinda get the actual grammar point most of the time but then they drop stuff like this on top. Itās not like I donāt know that one, I learned it a while ago but itās a subform of it. And just because I know it does not mean I mastered it.
And you are right, this is hindering me right now more than itās actually helping.
Never heard of Renshuu before, how does the grammar part work compared to bunpro?
I completely understand your frustration Ofcourse you have to learn combined grammar structures like these, but when you just learned some new grammar which is already complicated enough with all the different forms and then the reviews immediately bombard you with tricky questions like these - itās demotivating.
Imho it would would better if the reviews only ask you about the grammar point itself without having to combine it with multiple grammar points in the beginning so that stuff really sinks in. Then in the later stages - combine it with other grammar.
I actually only learned about Renshuu a month or 3 ago when I read about it on this forum. It has a lot of options and that can make it a bit overwhelming in the beginning. You have vocab, grammar, sentence studies, but then there are also games, reward systems, stuff like that.
I ignore all the games and rewards stuff and use it for 2 things - (re)learn grammar and do sentence practice, where you have to put words in the correct order.
As I said in my previous post - for me the explanations in Renshuu were really an eyeopener.
Atm they only have these explanations for N5 and N4 (N4 was completed very recently).
You can use it for free mostly, I bought a subscription to support the dev but it doesnāt really add much relevant features.
You can also change the settings per study section, like manually change the srs stages, which is great but again the amount of features can be a bit overwhelming.
If you donāt want to bother with how everything works and just want to check out the grammar lessons - in the app open the menu topleft, recources->Japanese lessons, there you can read all the explanations for N5 and N4 grammar.
I think you mostly learn grammar by reading a lot and Iām just not sure if doing these frustrating bunpro combined grammar lessons is the most effective way to get familiar with it.
I opened a thread on Bunpro discussing just that, grammar points should use the base form until you get them to a certain level, only then will new grammar points be added into the mix and only those that have reached a certain level as well!! I believe that would improve the overall learning experience massively and maybe even the pace because you donāt get stuck that often.
Not sure I can add more stuff on top of Wanikani and Bunpro, itās already quite overwhelming next to my full-time job. The only thing I can think of is adding a bit of reading on the weekends. I already do Wanikani + Bunpro every morning and evening, passive listening whenever possible, and anime in the evening before going to bed. I wish to do so much more, like writing and more srs but I canāt keep up with everything. Thatās why Bunpro is a bit frustrating right now because it is taking up too much time unnecessarily!
Good idea, I replied there, better to have this discussion in the Bunpro forum indeed.
I did WK in a year but hardly did anything else besides it, I just wanted to have the Kanji done. Combining too much at once is indeed heavy, especially when Bunpro gets so frustrating.
Maybe give BP a rest for a while and check out the grammar lessons in Renshuu. No need to do the SRS there, for me their explanations gave me a much better understanding.
I donāt think BP will change, it would mean a huge overhaul of all the lessons if they would stop combining grammar, but at least itās good to have a discussion about this on the BP forum.
Yea, That was the same thought process for me.
I couldnt do bunpro and wanikani together.
Also hated the grammar srs, didnt stick well with me. works for many not for me.
I moved to learning grammar from textbooks and vidoes and found them more entertaining.
Hello!
I donāt know if this is the right place to leave my one month challenge thingie, but I donāt really know if there is a way to private message in here.. soo..
Yeah, you helped me a lot with this guide. I didnāt read it in its entirety (and I still havenāt, I am kinda using it as a āhelping manualā for stuff that I need) so I didnāt know when I should post this, but today seemed pretty good.
The things that really helped me:
The hour scheduling. I am rather messy with schedules, but your 9 am 9 pm schedule helped me a lot, not only with learning Japanese per se, but with scheduling my whole day. Even when I donāt have anything planned, I still have somewhat of a structure that I didnāt know I needed for a long time.
So yeah, I can schedule things better now thanks to you.
The scripts and third party apps. They made the whole experience just a lot smoother. I really find the heatmap script and the wkstats site really helpful for checking my progress, thing which I didnāt even know it would help me that much.
The Pitch Info is also really great as Iāve been struggling with pronunciation and pitch comprehension .
I am level 5, and I am thinking about perhaps doing some immersion? I heard itās a pretty powerful tool, and as it seems to me, quite a fun one too!
Again, thanks for this post, this sure was a great basis for my Japanese studying journey.
I have a problem with Bunpros creators idealogy and way they think language adaptation works. They donāt have any language acquisition specialist on staff and it shows. I think it can be a good tool. But, their expectation is that you will study the grammar before the srs to the point where you donāt need the translation which isnāt very reasonable.
THey have a great goal of wanting you to think in japanese and ignore the translation, but most people canāt do that. They should scaffold it to reach that goal (5-10 reviews with directly translated english passages, 11-15 with the spirit of the grammar as the translations and after that to finished no translations at all) Right now their idea is to teach the direct translations than make all of the translated sentences āthe spiritā of the grammar so that you wonāt be using the translations for the srs. Again, most people canāt just jump from starting to thinking in Japanese so it leads a lot of users to be frustrated as hell and not retain the information.
I think it can be useful but it could be soo much better.
Hey @jprspereira, I just wanted to thank you for making this guide. Iāve had WaniKani for around 3 years but havenāt gotten past lvl 9. After being frustrated by lvl 9 taking me 2 months despite really wanting to lvl up quickly, I found your guide and just got done with lvl 10 in 8 days. Hope to keep this up to learn as much as possible before studying in Tokyo in january. Your guide really helped me understand basic principles about WaniKani that I think will save me months of wasted time. You da real MVP.
Hello, back to the track after delete account and make a new. I think some plugin donāt work right, I have installed all plugin but it donāt work. I canāt retype the answer, and many plugin donāt work. I think the link to new plugin need update
first : the double check plugin
Iām here from the email, weird to see someoneās success from years ago and being here at the beginning, weird in a comforting way. High chance that OP isnāt here anymore, but if they are, thank you!
Soā¦ the #messageme challenge, yeah? I read this guide all the way through during a good session of deskwarming exactly one month ago. I set a reminder on my phone and have kept this thread open in a pinned tab ever since. Iām proud to say that literally within the last few minutes, I just reached Level 4 (or level 3? Idk. I completed Level 3 and am now on Level 4). That meansā¦ I gotta cough up some change for a good service. Iām excited to have gotten this far in a month. I live and work in Japan, so I already had some help on my side, but I was often blindsided by the challenge WaniKani would be. Learning new kanji, vocab, and even grammar has been exciting, and I canāt wait to continue that journeyā¦ once I actually pay up.
Wish me luck! Also, where ever you are, thank you @jprspereira for making the thread (and the challenge!)
(and then fell into the rabbit hole and watch that Japanese person talk all his language to strangers, super entertaining but didnāt get a lot of reading done yesterday 
)
I donāt speak Spanish but I think it would be much more easier to learn Spanish grammar mostly by immersion like the guy in that video explains than it is for Japanese grammar.
