Level progress % feels not quite right - thoughts on way to improve this?

WaniKani
#1

Hi everyone,

Noob here, currently on level 7 and moving slowly but surely. :muscle:

One thing i’ve found is that the start of levels feel quite demotivating to me because the level progress % stays stubbornly on 0% for what seems ages. Then finally (!) the progress goes form 0-100% fairly quickly. But during that initial period in a level, it doesn’t feel like I’m moving forward.

From a psychological/motivational point of view, a constantly increasing progress % seems like it might be a better motivator.

How about calculating progress as the number of lessons you’ve done out of the total for the level? This would start moving from 0% straight away and should increase steadily to 100%.

i.e.

X / Y * 100

Where

X = number of lessons you’ve done for that level
Y = total number of lessons for that level

What do people think?

2 Likes
#2

I had to check what you meant because I’ve never really paid attention to the level progress thingy.

The problem with your idea is that Wanikani levels are based on kanji only. You can level up without doing the vocabulary, so basing level progression on vocabulary lessons done doesn’t give you any information on how close you are to leveling up. In fact, it would have nothing to do with your level whatsoever.

3 Likes
#3

I think it’s a good idea. So if we need 30 kanji to level-up, that would be 30 kanji that I have to bring to Guru I. Each kanji would then be worth 82 points. That’s 4 + 8 + 23 + 47 (the number of hours for each apprentice level). 30 * 82 = 2460, this is the number of points to get 30 kanji to Guru I. If I learn 3 new kanji, that’s 3 * 4 = 12 points out of 2460 or 0.4 percent. Doesn’t sound like much, but the more kanji you learn, the higher the percentage.

5 Likes
#4

06a

10 Likes
#5

I like this idea. Another way to think that aligns pretty well with the current information is that everytime a kanji levels up and gets a green block, the percentage moves up a bit.

3 Likes
#6

Hey, the percentage of your current level shows, how many kanjis you have completed at least to guru. That means you only get your progress when you really have a proof of knowing your kanjis. Also there is no total number of lessons you can rely on, since the lv up is based on kanjis only. It could be, that you will remain some vokab lessons of the last level when you start with the new one. The number of reviews are also diffrent since it depends on your accuracy. Personally i think the system works quite well how it is now. But you can add many information if you want to. Take a look on some user scripts for analysis, stats and other information. Or you can few your progress on wkstats.com.

2 Likes
#7

Aha.

That makes sense. Now I understand why it is the way it is.

But…! I still think the current setup is demotivating at the start of levels. Perhaps there’s a middle ground.

E.g. Progress is 50% having done the kanji lesson and 50% having guru’d the kanji. i.e.

Progress = (A / B + C / B) * 50

A = number of kanji lessons you’ve done in this level
B = total number of kanji in this level
C = number of kanji you’ve guru’d in this level

This would give you a bit more front-loaded progress, whilst not breaking the current level progression model.

2 Likes
#8

That seems arbitrary. Why does doing kanji lesson count for 50%? Why not 70% or 20%? There are 4 Apprentice levels, they don’t get any percent at all?

2 Likes
#9

I use the app Tsurukame, not the website. The app doesn’t display the “level progress” as the website does, but it has a “Time remaining (estimated)” - right now I’m at 4d 12h. It calculates the time it will take to level up according to your progress, and it even takes into account that you don’t need to guru all kanji to level up. Maybe that would be more like what you want - it’s like a count-down, and you even know when exactly you get to learn new radicals.

#10

I use the app Flaming turtles, and I think it does reflect what you ask for, it has bars that change color as you do the lesson and those lessons progress through the levels, when the full bar is purple it means you’ve guru’d all the items in that level/category.

Screenshot_2021-10-12-11-56-51-690_com.the_tinkering.wk
Screenshot_2021-10-12-11-56-51-690_com.the_tinkering.wk1080×2400 167 KB

1 Like
#11

Yes, I know. But the whole point of this thread was that it would be nice if the percentage rose more steadily instead of spikes in the end.

3 Likes
#12

Nothing you cant get with user scripts i guess^^

#13

With the ideas in this thread, the biggest side effect would be the ability for percentages to go backwards. I don’t particularly care, but I could see a small group of people getting “discouraged” because their progress bar went down.

3 Likes
#14

Just make it not able to go down :eyes:.

1 Like
#15

Lol, might lose some accuracy but that’s one solution

#16

We are all going down to durtle heaven.

1 Like
#18

similar strategy to others above: assign one “point” to each action you have to do. radical lesson, one point. radical first apprentice review, one point, and so on. There would be a minimum number of points to level up, and so a percentage could be calculated.

complication: after failing a review, you either shouldn’t get those points (even though you accomplished some learning, failing is learning too) or else the passed do-overs shouldn’t count, which is even more counter-intuitive.

complication: you could conceivably do it in the not-maximally-efficient order and end up with the minimum number of points and still not be done. In fact, i think that would happen more often than not because you don’t “need” every kanji to level up (just 90%) but most people don’t ignore the rest.

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#19

I like being able to see my progress - I use this script to make it prettier - I think it’s what Flaming Durtles borrowed from to show progression - I like being able to see how many items I have at each stage and see that the progress is happening - but I can also see it would be really hard to roll into a single progress bar like the built in one.

2 Likes
#20

I feel like watching the numbers move from Apprentice to Guru, etc. is what motivates me. I can see everyday that I’m chipping away…

#21

They could show you what % of the total items (radical, kanji and vocab) that you’ve completed for each level somewhere, instead of only showing the current level’s kanji progression.

You would level up a little bit before you 100% the level, and those who use reorder scripts would start making progress on the next level before 100%ing the prior one, but it could be a more accurate assessment of your progress through the course and more motivational for learning radicals and vocab.

Now that I’ve thought of this I sort of want to make a user script for it.

Edit: I read the whole thread and this is pretty much what some other people are suggesting as well I think :stuck_out_tongue: Also looks like it already exists in flaming durtles.

1 Like