Kuso! - What NOT to say in Japanese - swearing, sex, and general rudness

It’s not exclusively used to talk to children. I was just using that example because I was replying to someone who used that example. Again, it depends on the situation like 90% of Japanese. If you normally talk to someone using familiar Japanese, then you drop a command using keigo, it hit different. It shows annoyance or even offence.

Like if the situation is someone hitting on your girlfriend at a club, and you walk up to them and say おやめなさい you are prepared to throw hands.

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おかま is pretty common. you might not have heard it, but i did, and not only once… and i don’t even have anything to do with that kinda stuff.

man, this thread is full of half-knowledge, i’d be busy for hours if i wanted to fix everything wrong i’ve seen here. saying this so nobody tries to learn anything in here.

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Please, do give it a try when you have time to share you’re knowledge. I’m sure it will be very appreciated by the community!

That being said. I’m not sure what my intentions originally were for the thread, outside of creating a place to discuss these things because I felt myself lacking the ability to navigate the language use of rude vocabulary? :thinking:

I think most of us want to make as good an impression we can, but also make use of Japanese more akin to how we use our own language (meaning “bad” words included). Well, at least to understand the range of expressions and better gauge the social situations when you might be able to use something ruder and when not to - to talk more naturally, without being rude!

So, it you feel up to it, please do share what you know and comment on at least some things? I think we can all benefit from this discussion! :slight_smile:

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I’ll second that notion. Half-knowledge is minus-knowledge after all. It’s always interesting to have some of the mental cobwebs get dispelled by hands-on know-how. 教えてください。

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I’ve heard it, but not in any drama or serious media. Just anime.

But then I’m only around 500 hours of immersion in, and of that only ~150hours of actual strictly logged active immersion.

all right, let me give it a go.

first of all, i’d not put words in too strict categories.

how you express yourself depends on many things. how close you are to the other person, your social standings, how long you’ve known each other, your genders (not your sex, japanese is not restrictive), the topic you’re talking about, and so on.

what might sound odd when used with one person might be perfectly fine with another. i call myself 俺 with my wife, but not at work. i can use くそ暑い! with a total stranger when the context is right.

ok, now. for starters, it’s ご協力 :wink:

saying 死ぬ is “not great to say” is not correct.
外人 is not “rude”, it’s the more casual form of 外国人, and if you wanted to, you could use 外国の方 to make it sound more polite. the whole concept of “rude” is not always the best way to think about words and expressions. the bigger the distance, the more indirect and “soft” you make something, the more formal it becomes, but you can be an asshat using keigo no problem.

おかま is okay to use if you’re talking with someone casually, since it’s not a nice word, but i wouldn’t put it in the same category as さつ for example, a yakuza term for “police”. it’s just not as formal as 同性愛, so it’s not a term you’d use in a setting with someone you’re maintaining some degree of distancing with.

おなべ isn’t common, more of a term from grandpas era. if you don’t wanna sound like an old fart from the boonies, don’t use it, lol.

ちくしょう is an exclamation, you don’t call anyone or anything that, think of it as “f*ck!”.
メタボ isn’t rude at all, it’s just plain obesity. デブ or 太っちょ means fat person, the latter not really being rude (you’d say that to a fat kid, without being malicious). if you want to address someone’s weight, you can use 体が重い or just plain the form of 太ってる that makes sense to use with the other person.
ブス is definitely an insult, same for 盲… you’d use 目が不自由, for example. just try to be sensible and indirect and you’re generally good.

i only got to like the halfway point of this thread and im already tired ^^ so i’ll stop it here. you get the gist: the closer you are, the less formal you’ll speak (not only because you can, but also because it would be awkward to be too formal). if you’re japanese, talking like you’re closer than you really are is uncomfortable, unless it comes from someone higher up than you, for example your boss (and even then, you’d take age into account, and relationship). there’s really no strict rules.

and at the end of the day, if you look like a foreigner, people will cut you some slack, unless you speak as if you’ve been born in japan and never left the country - but in that case, you wouldn’t be here reading this.

what you have to develop is an ear for the situation. 空気を読む is the term used for this skill. that’s after you developed the language competency. even something clearly meant to be rude, like ブス, can be completely okay if used with the right person in the right situation.

that’s why the premise of this thread doesn’t work well, from the start.

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thanks for delivering. i think your point comes across well enough even without going through all examples in this thread :smile:

isn’t it at least somewhat valuable knowing not to use these words until you understand the nuance better? sure, we shouldn’t outright avoid them entirely but otherwise i’d maybe just look them up in a dictionary or hear them somewhere and use them in a totally inapproiate context. this way i have them stored in my head with a small warning sign, to try them out just with the people closest to me first.

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Are you suggesting that 外人 came from 外国人? 外人 started out as its own word with just the meaning of “outsider” and only later picked up the meaning of “person from a foreign country” to go along with that.

In contrast, 外国人 can only ever be construed as “person from a foreign country.” That’s where the people who take issue with 外人 are coming from. People who use it today may not be thinking of it that way, but there are certainly some Japanese who recognize that it can be insensitive.

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it’s what people use casually to say “foreigner”, with the next formal being 外国人, followed by 外国の方. the etymology doesn’t matter in practical application.
in current japanese, you dont call an outsider a 外人, you’d use something like 部外者, or simply 関係のない人

@anon88459823 because you probably look like a foreigner, i doubt there’s a need to walk on eggs. i got along well with everyone here, and people forgave my my faux pas. think about it, if things like this are the problem, you’re already at a pretty good level, certainly beyond what many japanese people would expect from a foreigner.

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You may have noticed that sometimes we stop using words that we recognize developed from an unpleasant original connotation. Even if many people use the word without malice. I observe some Japanese people thinking of the word 外人 that way. They won’t say 外人 regardless of the level of casualness. (And just to be clear, I’m not trying to suggest that I personally am offended by the word.)

It’s possible you are someone who does not like that process in any language, I’m not sure. That kind of discussion might be outside the scope of this thread.

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i haven’t noticed people stopping to use 外人. some might think it’s not perfectly PC, but this mindset isn’t even really a thing here.
when people speak directly to me, and they meet me for the first time, they would of course rather use something like どちら様, but that doesn’t make 外人 rude in any way.

Okay… You’ve never seen it and I have. I’m not sure what point there is to be made from that. I’m not arguing that it’s universally regarded that way, clearly. But I have literally seen Japanese people tell other Japanese people they think it’s rude. And many Japanese people obviously don’t think it’s rude. That would put it in the early stages of transition.

To suggest that Japanese doesn’t go through that process with words is strange to me. There are plenty of words that have gone from acceptable to being considered insensitive.

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there is no “japanese people”, they’re individuals like you and me. some are more “woke”, some couldn’t care less. what you see and what i see might differ greatly just because the circles we frequent differ. no idea in which region you are, that might have an influence, too.
i can only speak about chiba, my students are high school students, and i meet rather old folks outside of work. none of them even thinks about why a word of their mother tongue might be “offensive” to some westerners.

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Are you trying to catch me out on the difference between “people” and “persons” or something? I never referred to “the Japanese people” as a single entity in my post.

It’s pretty late so if I don’t respond it’s because I went to bed.

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why would i be petty like that? i’m not kelth.

In my experience, 外人 was never perceived as rude by any of my old colleagues at a Japanese company. Both native Japanese and the former expats.

There was two main usages of this word that I saw:

  1. The legitimately describe someone who was not from Japan and their lack of experience doing a certain activity, i.e. ordering from a vending machine.

  2. As a form of joke by the expats, “What do I know, I am just a gaijin!”

Never did I see anyone get offended. But that’s just my experience.

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That wasn’t about 家内?

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家内 too, and this actually says “in the house” :wink:

Well, yes, but you wouldn’t typically expect people who aren’t in a certain category to be offended by names that refer to that category.

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And I’m guessing you’re going to say you’ve never heard of a Japanese person who doesn’t like those words.

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