Kitty Detectives! Week 3 Discussion 🐈

Well, as you know, feelings can be deceptive!

Whenever I see grammar, even just grammar terminology, my brain tries to find a place to hide. This is literally true… I get a bit dizzy and unfocused. Reading through a post like yours is such hard work for me, my entire body and brain resists it, so, believe me, in my eyes, you’re nothing short of a genius! Thank you so much for posting!

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Poor old man. Just because he’s helping people find their inner Picasso, he’s now being accused of lying, assault, stealing and had some random woman (and a very smug cat) violate his privacy by walking into his garden and digging through his trash :cry:

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look at that hat and tell me he’s innocent

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phew, doing the work of week two and three on one day wasn’t a great idea - I feel like my head will explode any time now - BUT I have caught up with you! And I really wanted to know how the story would continue ^^

As all questions I had while reading are already answered, I just want to say that I had to chuckle at 先手必勝 (p. 31) - sometimes Kanji are so logical
first hand sure victory:rofl: brilliant!

We definitely are! This is so exciting :smiley:

Looking forward to reading together with you again next week :wink:

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Yay, you made it! :tada: and with a whole weekend to spare - probably didn’t need to explode your head after all :wink:

I always love seeing someone creep up by the progression of their likes :grin:

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I have two questions about page 26:

あたしは ものかげにかくれ、ようすをうかがった。

I’ve seen this happen a lot, where there’s just a masu stem (かくれ). How am I supposed to interpret that?

なんの形しら

I gather the sentence means something along the lines of “what shape is this?”, but what does しら mean exactly?

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Using the stem of a verb at the end of a sentence or phrase allows you to connect several sentences, pretty much in the same way as the て-form of verbs can. Using the stem of the verb is more formal and mostly used in literary settings. (bunpro link, Tae-Kim link)

You have a small typo here, it is 形しら, not 形しら. In case you are not familiar with it かしら means something like “I wonder”, usually used by females.

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自信 = self-confidence, so I read it as more of “I have confidence (in my own deductive abilities, so I’m going to act on them, now).”

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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense! These differences in formality/register in Japanese almost make it like you’re learning two or three languages sometimes.

D’oh, that’s what I get from not working from the original book but from my notes :sweat_smile:

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Pages 26 and 27

I parsed the first sentence slightly differently. Instead of reading it as あたしは物陰に隠れ(る)、様子を伺った, I had the last verb as 窺った, “to peep (through); to peek; to examine (esp. covertly)”, i.e. I hid myself [e.g. in the shadows] and surreptitiously watched for anything suspicious.

This page, read alongside 27, is a nice example of how some transitive / intransitive verb pairs change their sound (here, 見付ける vs 見付かる). I thought that was pretty cool.

I went with 様子を伺う because when I typed ようすをうかがった into ichi.moe it gave it back to me as a single set phrase. Again, kanji would be so helpful…

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Yes, that must be funny to watch :sweat_smile:

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I’ve not seen a definitive answer to this and I’m struggling with it too. The way the particles are used makes no sense to me.

助けを – direct object
よぶに – purpose
も – ‘even’?
あたりに – purpose?
人かげは – topic
ない – verb

There are not even any people to reach for the purpose of calling for help? Or am I stretching the meaning of あたり too far there?

あたり = vicinity (You’ll see this in WaniKani at level 7.)
に = at; in (location particle)

“in the vicinity”, or simply “nearby” works for English.

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Ahhh, I was thinking along the lines of 当たる. The more I read hiragana, the more I start to appreciate kanji :sweat_smile:

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I feel if someone wrote a list of “milestones” in learning Japanese, one of those milestones would be the transition from “Why does Japanese need kanji?” to “Why didn’t they use kanji here?!”

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What I’m confused by is the two も’s in that sentence:

Page 22

「そんな、 証拠もない 話しをされても こまるなあ。」

I reckon the first one could be an intensifying も: ‘such a story for which there isn’t even any evidence’.

But why the second も? I doubt it’s an ‘also’ も and I also don’t see why you’d need two intensifiers in one sentence.

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As far as I understand, what is happening here is that when you find a verb in て-form followed by も, this converts the verb to an “even if” construction. This is actually listed by jisho in the 4th meaning for も:

So, if we want to be literal, 話しをされても would be “even if / although I am told that theory/story”. If we combine this with the rest of the sentence we’d get “Even if I am told such a no-evidence theory, it is troublesome”.

Attempting a more natural English, I’d go for something like “Even if you tell me such a theory, it is problematic for me since there’s no evidence”

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