Kitty Detectives! Week 3 Discussion 🐈

You know, I spent so long editing and re-editing that post, wondering whether to point out the contracted ている or just keep it focused on the passive form! Glad ChristopherFritz was able to make it clear for you ^^

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Page 24

This is more of an “am I correct?” question than a proper question.

こうなったら、自分でしらべるまでよ。

I hadn’t (knowingly) encountered this use of まで before, but is the interpretation essentially:

well if it’s come to this, I’ll just investigate by myself

From what I looked up, it’s often used with “if” statements (like なったら), and implies that there’s nothing to be done but [verb], or you will “simply / just” do [verb]. You’re telling the listener what you would / will do in a situation.

“If the bus doesn’t show up, I’ll just walk”
“If the cinema is closed, I’ll just go to the pub”
“If she won’t help me, I’ll just do it myself”

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This (your blurred translation which I don’t seem able to quote) is what about what I came up with as well, so hopefully that does mean we are correct.

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Ah, in that case - does that mean the 話をされて is referring to him telling the story? I realise it’s in the passive, but he’s referring to the hypothetical where that theory is told/shared/spread/acted on by him, right? “Telling such a story with no proof would be difficult.”

Rather than commenting on the fact that Hanae has just told him such a theory, I mean?


@Rowena for some reason Discourse doesn’t let you quote blurred bits independently. If you grab a character either side you can get it and then delete the extra bits ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Page 28

Thank you! I’ve just this minute reached the section you are talking about!

Hanae-san speaking:
すみません. うちのねこが おたくの庭に はいりこんじゃって.

すみません. - excuse me, sorry
うちのねこが - my cat + identifier / subject particle
おたくの庭に - your garden + に particle
はいりこんじゃって - to go into, 入り込む, in て-form: はいりこんで, plus しまう (regrettably)…
… はいりこんじゃう…
… which is then itself in て-form… but why?

Why does the sentence end in て-form? I’d say it’s because she intends to continue speaking, but there is a definite fill stop there! Any ideas?

Thank you once more for posting your notes! On page 22, I see you have kanji’d✱ かえっていった back into a conjugation of 変える, “to change, alter” etc. I believe (and please forgive me if I’ve got this wrong), 変える is actually an ichidan verb, which conjugates into the continuous form as 変えて.

I think the sentence might read,

黒星けいぶは 笑いながら 帰って行った。

“Inspector Kuroboshi went home laughing.” (Which matches up with the picture too.) This usage of 帰って行った shows up in a few examples in tatoeba (translated as ‘went home’, ‘left quickly’, ‘had gone home’) and as 帰っていった in a few more, but I have to say the usage of two motion verbs in a row like this does my head in a bit.

✱ What is the real word for this process?

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Thank you. I was thinking he was starting to change his mind, but your suggestion is far more straightforward.

I’m good with kanji’d, too! :grin:

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Well, my interpretation is that 話 refers to Hanae’s theory.

話をする means “to tell a story”. Since this is in passive, it would mean “being told a story”. However, 話 is more general than the English word “story” and can refer to anything you’ve been told: a theory, a rumor, an idea, a proposal. (See for example うまい話 which refers to a too-good-to-be-true offer).

So, this is definitely not him telling the story, but him being told Hanae’s theory. “Being told such an evidence-lacking theory like that, is troublesome (for me)” is how I would translate it somewhat literally. Troublesome because it is lacking evidence, and thus, he can’t really do anything with it (which is what I’d infer from the context).

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I just finished this week’s pages, hooray! The last pages were a breeze, I didn’t have any big troubles except what @Radish8 asked about on page 24 and one sentence on page 30:

Page 30

だめだ、助けをよぶにもあたりに人かげはない。たたかおう

“It’s no good, calling out for help is useless, there are no people around. Let’s fight” Is my guess, although not very literal, I guess. I think にも is the second definition on Jisho: “(it’s not possible) no matter what; although one might wish otherwise​ [after the volitional or dictionary form of verb]” but I’m not sure how to translate this well.

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page 22
あたしは自信をもっていった。

Just to make sure: 自信を持つ means to have confidence?

So Hanae is saying...?

I’m confident (She’s confident that the following theory she’s talking about is true.) or a more loose translation I’m sure […about the following].

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I think perhaps you’ve misunderstood my confusion, but that still clears it up, thanks :grin:

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My notes:

Page 26

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With your notes Rowena, and the Google Docs Wordlist, plus all the great comments and questions here, this week’s reading has been a breeze! Thank you everyone! And to whoever it is that is updating the vocab list… you’re doing a great job! Thank you so much! Really hugely appreciated! :+1: :smiley: :bowing_man: :smiley: :+1:

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My gut reaction on reading, without having looked up the grammar, was something like

even if I call for help, there is nobody in the area

I agree that fitting those Jisho definitions into the sentence feels pretty clunky, though I suppose you could read it as something like “it’s not possible to…”. The internet has not been very helpful to me in looking up にも :unamused: can anyone else weigh in?


@frayderike that’s how I interpreted it!

I was confident. “The culprit is that artist.”


Page 28

どうしよう、あやしまれる!

I found this a slightly weird thing to say, but I think it just sounds odd in English. あやしまれる is the passive of あやしむ, “to suspect”.

Would the best non-literal translation be something like what should I do, he suspects me!?

As an aside, I find it quite funny that the artist just nods wordlessly at her in response :joy: also, look at Capone getting all involved in the action finally!

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Dictionary form of a verb (such as よぶ) + にも = にも has the meaning of “(it’s not possible) no matter what; although one might wish otherwise”. (There are so many single-situation grammars to memorize!)

Possible translation for the sentence (with 助けをよぶにも in bold):

Although I wish I could call for help, there’s nobody in the area.”

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Eehhhhh, I was trying to fit that into the sentence so hard, but I didn’t think of ‘although I wish I could’.

I was like although one might wish otherwise than calling for help?? calling for help you might wish otherwise??

Honestly, my biggest issue (generally) is not the number of niche grammatical uses. It’s that so often the given meaning / translation doesn’t really seem to fit or make sense with what I’m actually looking at. You’re nearly always trying to kind of hammer the sentence into a form that makes sense, even after successfully looking up the right piece of grammar. /rant

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Thanks! The whole receive/give point of view is so confusing sometimes, especially when trying to wrap the head around the rest of the sentence.

But the regrettable action isn’t that she thinks it’s rude of him, but that he doesn’t want to believe her, right? If so, why is it attached to rude? I’m sure I’m overthinking it.


@ChristopherFritz Oh that’s nicely put. :smiley:

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Good news is, you get used to it after enough exposure. Just this morning I read in Youtsuba where, after learning she and her father were going to go to the store, Yotsuba asks what her father is going to buy (kau), but then immediately reasks it as what he is going to buy for her (katte kureru). These instances build up over time and you start to get a natural feel for it =D

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The rest of my notes for this week:

p27

p28

p30

p31

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I was quite interested in this sentence / clause: あたしは けいぶが 書いてくれた地図を持って、画家の家に 行って見た。Roughly, I took the map the Inspector drew for me, and went to take a look at the artist’s house. It pointed out a mistake I’d been making for over a decade now.

I have always misunderstood phrasings like ~てくれた as being examples of the use of 来る as an auxiliary verb*, with it indicating that the benefit of the action described by the ~て verb was “coming” to the subject (e.g. here, the the inspector drew it, and then it came to me / I received it). This is wrong. It seems it is actually an entirely different verb, くれる (呉れる), “to do for someone”.

I think my confusion arose because くれる has an alternative irregular conjugation in the imperative mood, くれ, which I have heard people using. This is close to what 来る would sound in the imperative mood if it was a regular godan verb** - compare level 38’s 繰る, “to spin”.

In conclusion, boy do I feel dumb nowd’ohhhhhhhhh, but I hope this explanation helps someone else avoid making the same mistake.

* e.g. like it is used in パーティーにたくさんの食べ物を持って来た.
** which it, of course, is not as it actually conjugates to い.

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