Kitty Detectives! Week 3 Discussion

Pages 21 - 31

Story 1: 赤いとびらの家事件

Start Date: 4th November
Last Week: Case Part 2
Next Week: Case Part 4

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にゃんにゃん探偵団 Home Thread

Last sentence of page 31 for eBook readers:
パッコーン。
ところが…。

Story 1 Schedule
Week Start Date Part Page Numbers
Week 3 November 4th Case Part 3 21 - 31
Week 4 November 11th Case Part 4 32 - 42
Week 5 November 18th Solution Part 1 44 - 56
Week 6 November 25th Solution Part 2 58 - 67


Vocabulary List

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My notes:

Page 21

Page 22

(Note to self - if you hadn’t read this case ahead of time, you would have learned some of the vocab in WK beforehand)

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Looks like we’re ending on a cliffhanger this week folks :astonished:

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Page 21

また ほんとは 宝石はとられてなくて、

And the truth (is) the gems weren’t taken,

秋田さんが保険金を もらいたいために、

because Mr. Akita wants to receive the insurance payout

事件にあったと うそをついていることも

telling a lie that there was an incident as well

考えられるんだ。

You can consider - help with this bit please? Long verb forms confuse me!
どう思う?

Whaddya think?

わあ、おもしろい事件だわ。

Well, it’s an interesting case.

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考えれるんだ=考えれる+んだ
考えれる is the potential form, so ‘can be thought’. It sort of frames what can be thought with the また at the beginning, so また考えれるのは (ほんとは宝石はとられてなくて、秋田さんが保険金をもらいたいために、事件にあったとうそをついている)ことも

Does this re-framing help? Though I think you had the meaning down already. :slight_smile: (This is the inspector thinking of / sharing another possible solution to the crime)

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Couple of grammar points I noticed from the first couple of pages :slight_smile:


On page 21 we see an instance of passive form, as broken down by Rowena above.

Passive form is where the verb is acting on the subject, rather than an object. “The food was eaten” rather than “I ate the food”.

In this case it’s “the gems weren’t taken” - 宝石はとられてなくて - all tied up with a て-form conjugation and negation.


On page 22 we see すぎる used as a suffix to mean ‘to be too much’ / ‘to be excessive’. It can be appended to either adjective stems (like くらい ‘dark’ -> くらすぎる ‘too dark’) or verb stems (like 食べる ‘to eat’ -> 食べすぎる ‘to eat too much’).

In this case it’s appended to うまい, giving us something like ‘too good’, ‘too perfect’, ‘too fortunate’.

話がうますぎます。


That しか ~ない construction I mentioned last week comes up again on page 22 - “an only-once-a-month painting class”.


Okay, time for me to read a bit more and ask my own questions :sweat_smile:

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Okay, I’m unhappy with a sentence from page 22.

月一回しかない絵画教室の日に、たまたま事件がおきて、アリバイが証明されるなんて、話がうますぎます。

Specifically the アリバイが証明されるなんて part - I always hate the ‘bitty’ words like なんて.

We have 証明される, the passive form of 証明する, ‘to prove’ - so ‘to be proved’. The アリバイ… is proved? It’s the indirect subject of this little part… I guess if you take the meaning as ‘to verify’ then it makes more sense: ‘his alibi was verified’.

And then the なんて being modified by the relative clause makes it “things like his alibi being verified”?

Can anybody chime in on whether that’s right? I think I kind of worked it out as I was typing it out, as is so often the way.


So then, what do we think the inspector is saying in response?

そんな、証拠もない話をされてもこまるなあ。

Telling such a story even with no proof… is a stretch? Like “you must be at a loss / stumped”?

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Welp, so many long sentences here, too!
I need some help with understanding the big sentence on page 22:
月一回しかない絵画教室の日に、- in on the day of the monthly painting class (room? I’m not sure how to understand the room part)
たまたま事件がおきて、アリバイが証明されるなんて、話がうますぎます - to be honest, I’m very lost here. I can’t think of a way to interpret this to make sense. I know what the words mean, but just can’t make sense of them!

Edit: Lol, Radish8 was faster. :sweat_smile:

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:grin:

“On the day of the painting class, which only happens once a month” is probably a reasonable interpretation. It’s a bit confusing because she talks about the classroom, as you say, but think of it as the day on which the classroom exists / is open.

Are you okay with the rest of it? “(On the day of the painting classroom), by chance the incident occurs, his alibi is verified… his story is too perfect.”

Assuming my muddled walk to understanding the alibi bit was correct :sweat_smile:

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I agree with your interpretation of that sentence. As you mention, なんて is one of those words that are very difficult to translate, since it is mostly something that adds emphasis - in this case that having a perfect alibi is too much of a coincidence.

Hmmm I thought that こまる in this case simply meant that the inspector feels that without proof it’d just be trouble for him to go ahead and take Hanae’s theory as truth (and for example arrest the painter)

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Ah that makes sense.

No, im even more puzzled by the rest of the sentence. :sweat_smile:

Also the last sentence on that page is troubling me:
あら、しんじてくれないなんて 失礼しちゃうわ
あら、- Ahh
しんじてくれないなんて - There’s no point in (=なんて?) asking him to believe me
失礼しちゃうわ - would be a discourtesy? Is the し actually して and makes the noun into a verb? I’m not sure how accurate ichi.moe is with these kinds of things.
About the ちゃう, according to Wasabi can be both “to do something completely,” or “to have something done.” or to express unintentional or regrettable actions but I’m not sure how this can be translated if at all and which could be correct.

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~てくれる can be used when someone is doing you a favor, or you perceive that something someone else does is something good for you. In this case, since it’s in negative form, he’s not doing her the favor of believing her theory.

I believe the しちゃうわ in this sentence fits best with the 2nd English option you put. I’d translate it simply, ‘how rude’. はなえ does not appreciate the good inspector doubting her. ^^.

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To answer this bit - it’s 失礼 being used as a する verb, so it’s a verb, yes - ‘to be rude’.

ちゃう actually comes from a contraction of てしまう.
So we start with 失礼する.
This is conjugated to 失礼して in order the use the axuliary verb しまう, becoming 失礼してしまう.
This is then contracted to 失礼しちゃう.

しまう is used a surprisingly large amount in Japanese, usually to convey vaguely regrettable or unfortunate things, as Belerith explained.

(also useful to know - でしまう is often contracted to じゃう) - edit: you will actually see this on page 28! :eyes:

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My reaction to page 26: THE KITTIES ARE HERE!

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My notes:

Page 24

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Page 21

Thank you so much for this @Radish8. Let me see if I can get my head around it:

宝石 - gems
は - subject particle
とられて - to steal, とる, in passive form, とられる, and then て-form, とられて, “was stolen and…”
なくて - not, ない, in て-form, “not and…”

But, the negative passive of とる is とられない, if you make this into the て-form it is とられなくて isn’t it?

So why does the text say とられてなくて and not just とられなくて? Why the extra て in there?

Sorry, grammar really is not my strong point (along with pretty much all other aspects of Japanese!)

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Consider the following:

  • 注文(ちゅうもん)をとる = to take an order
  • 注文(ちゅうもん)をとっている = taking an order

The first may be used to say “the waitress takes orders” whereas the second is used to say “the waitress is taking an order”.

  • とっている = とる + いる = to take + exists

When you say a verb exists, you are saying the action is happening right now. In English, when the action of “to take” is happening right now, we say “taking”.

  • 注文(ちゅうもん)をとらない = to not take an order
  • 注文(ちゅうもん)をとってない = not taking an order

The first may be used to say “the waitress doesn’t take orders” (and she still has a job?!), whereas the second is to say, “the waitress is taking an order” (it’s what she’s in the middle of doing right now).

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Page 21

Amazing! Amazing! I’ve never seen ~ている explained like that before! And yet it makes perfect sense! Thank you so much!

So, what you’re saying is, on page 21, what we actually have is:

宝石 - gems
は - subject particle
とられて - to steal, とる, in passive form, とられる, and then て-form (because followed by いる)
invisible い
なくて - the negative て-form of いる

Okay, my brain is spinning here, but I think I might have it now. Thank you so much!

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You are correct in the breakdown. I’m having trouble coming up with an explanation of what difference it makes to have て + いる + ない versus just having とる as negative. In my example above, it’s the difference between “the waitress doesn’t take orders” versus “the waitress isn’t taking an order”, which is pretty clear.

But I can’t make so clear a distinction with the story’s sentence. Here is what I have:

By saying 「とられてなくて」, the inspector is suggesting the jewels are not in the state of being taken. “Taking did not exist.”

If he said 「とられなくて」, he would be saying there was no taking of the jewels. “No taking.”

I wish I could wrap this up in a way that makes sense. I wonder if this is a case where Japanese just works a little different for some verbs?

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Wow, thank you so much. I’ve just made a stack of notes and can’t tell you how much I appreciate your clear and wonderful explanation. I have to get off the computer now before my brain really does explode, but thank you again so much!