To some of us here that would you make a youngster. I cannot accept that you are in any way close to old, for if so, what would that make me 
Thanks, watchlisted!
Fair enough 
Let’s rephrase: no longer young… although I’m not sure I could also add “grown up” as a qualifier 
Okay… this week’s watches. By happenstance, it seems some of them were intent on making me pay more attention to the music than usual
蜘蛛巣城 / Throne of Blood
1957, Akira Kurosawa
After a major victory in battle, general Washizu and his friend Miki meet a woman in the Spider’s Web Forest who foretells their advancement in rank. She tells Washizu will become lord of the land and will be succeeded by Miki’s son.
Pushed by his ambitious wife Lady Asaji, Washizu will work to fulfill that prophecy, with dire consequences.
zzz
If that sounds familiar, it’s because Kurosawa did an adaptation of Shakespeare’s Macbeth, more straightforward than his take on Hamlet.
But it is, of course, set in feudal Japan, so a little different. Thankfully, it also loses the verse dialogue 
A lot of it is apparently staged as a Noh theatre play, however I’m not familiar with that so can’t really comment…
The atmosphere is very cool, what with the menacing fog always surrounding the Spider’s Web Castle and the drenched forest.
It has a nice horror tinge to it, thanks to a ghost (imagined? maybe, maybe not) showing up and, of course, the creepy Lady Macbeth Asaji and her manipulation of Washizu. Too bad she’s not given a more extensive role…
Also, I’d say the transformation of Washizu is a bit sudden, I guess we could have had some 20-30mins extra to better show his descent.
However it is still an enjoyable watch - 7.5-8/10 from me.
Oh and… how cool was Mifune’s armor in the final act!?! I do wonder how it might have looked in colour…
隠し砦の三悪人 / The Hidden Fortress
1958, Akira Kurosawa
A famous general protecting a princess on the run tricks two greedy peasants into helping him and the lady cross enemy lines (along with the gold of their clan), by promising them a share of the clan’s fortune.
zzz
I first watched this as a kid, at the time I didn’t know it was the inspiration for Star Wars: A New Hope.
While there are plenty of similarities, this one hasn’t lost its charm.
It’s still an enjoyable lighthearted romp, with the two peasants (who were combined into C3PO by George Lucas) being quite funny in their travails. And Mifune - whose character here is half Han Solo, half Luke Skywalker - appears to have had loads of fun himself, at times it seemed he could barely maintain his battle-hardened-general composure 
Shot in widescreen (first one for Kurosawa, I think?), it’s quite a looker thanks in part to the “highly Instagrammable” terrain the troupe has to cross, and in part to the as usual excellent cinematography.
But boy, did Kurosawa like to have them scale some serious slopes on all fours all the time!
Oh, another similarity with SW is in the ineptitude of some soldiers, akin to that of stormtroopers, only now with swords and spears 
Speaking of the latter, the fighting highlight of the film was a duel between two generals but it kinda left me cold 'cause of their using spears rather than swords. Oh well, can’t have it all… But then the fire festival scenes were very nice
But anyway. It may be “vacation mode” Kurosawa and objectively ‘behind’ other samurai films of his, but I like it for the adventures of the gang.
8/10 (down from what must have been a 10+ some 30+ years ago… )
恋文 / Love Letter
1953, Kinuyo Tanaka
Five years after the end of WW2, a broken, disillusioned man finds a job as writer of love letters from Japanese women to American GIs who left the country - he translates them to English for the women. He’s longing for a girl he’s loved since childhood, but when he meets her again, it’s under unexpected circumstances and his reaction is none too friendly.
zzz
Kinuyo Tanaka was a favourite actress of Kenji Mizoguchi, with a rumoured romantic entanglement which she nonetheless denied even as late as 1975.
Yet when she decided to go into directing herself, he didn’t support her. Funny, coming from a man who made plenty of films about the hardships faced by Japanese women… 
But others like Ozu and Kinoshita supported her, so she became the second female director in Japanese filmmaking history.
In this her first film, she examines the effect of war on both men and women of Japan… with the latter yet again at a disadvantage. Love has its limits, it seems, and they’re maybe stricter than one would have expected.
However, there’s compassion to be had even for the men of a defeated country… perhaps PTSD (although it wasn’t a term back then) can manifest itself also by way of disappointment, unacceptance (born of intentional ignorance) and unwillingness to understand or inability to forgive.
On the other hand, the film is also critical of a certain type of women - some are writting letters to multiple GIs professing their love. But maybe they’re just doing it to survive in the difficult post-war situation…
It also has a lot of undertones against the American occupation and its aftermath - more so than in other Japanese films I’ve seen from the period. Somewhat surprising, considering that in 1949 Kinuyo Tanaka spent a while in US as a cultural envoy, and when she returned apparently she was sporting American mannerisms that didn’t go well with her Japanese fans.
It’s all rather grim, yes, but there’s a happy ending… of sorts, anyway. At least it’s less ambiguous than I expected.
Masayuki Mori again gets an unpleasant role, and again he does a very fine job.
The cinematography is interesting to say the least. Although Tanaka learned a lot from the directors she worked with, and does borrow some of their techniques, a lot of the time the shooting style feels Western not Japanese (also some times felt in the acting style of some characters, presumably at Tanaka’s direction). The camera moves a lot (smoothly) around the scenes, often in “retreating” motion. There are plenty of very good looking framings and nice transitions from scene to scene. It’s all quite lovely!
On the soundtrack side of things: this one had a couple of old songs (30s to 40s I guess?) playing on radio, again eerily similar to Romanian music from that time 
A solid 8/10 and I’m already eyeing a next film from her.
御用金 / The Steel Edge of Revenge (Goyokin)
1969, Hideo Gosha
A samurai leaves his clan and becomes a ronin after they murder a whole village to cover the theft of gold mined from the Sado island, that was meant to go to the Shogun. Three years later, he finds out they’re planning a similar scheme, and this time he returns to stop them.
zzz
An action-packed adventure set during the late Tokugawa Shogunate period, with a lot of fighting going around.
It’s filmed with a lot of 70s flair (well, late 60s but it’s the same thing for me Man shrugging ), with rather, erm, shall we say “bold” camera angles, the lens zooming in and out on/from characters… not quite my style [image]
But the winter setting is indeed used to good effect: the men’s hands get cold and can’t wield the swords properly, slips on ice or lost footing in the fresh snow, a general sense of freezing cold…
Apparently Toshirō Mifune was supposed to be cast as ‘the bad guy’ (although he too has his reasons that do make sense to an extent, samurai loyalty and honour and all that) but was replaced a few weeks into filming by Tetsurô Tanba.
Tatsuya Nakadai in the lead role, on the other hand… well you could say he was a cooler cucumber than even Mifune [image]
And there’s of course a lovely lady too, for those of us not quite captured by the swordfighting spectacle - Ruriko Asaoka who according to IMDb had 171 credits yet this is the first one I see her in. She’s not quite Ayako Wakao, but still very very easy on the eyes:blush:
7/10, but it has glowing reviews on IMDb and Letterboxd, so… YMMV!
plus
a clip of a drums tune at the end of the film
So the final 10-15mins have a very very cool background music of drums with some vocalization. The performers even appear on-screen, wearing demon masks which adds even more flavour to the whole thing.
I was able to find only this very short clip on YT, but does anyone recognize the original tune and maybe have a link to share?
人間の証明 / Proof of the Man
1977, Jun’ya Satô
A young black man from Harlem suddenly ups and goes to Tokyo, only to be murdered there soon afer his arrival. The only clues the police have are three mispronounced Japanese words. The night of his murder, a woman is killed in an unintentional hit-and-run in Tokyo. There’s an indirect connection between the two events, that will see Japanese and American detectives working together.
zzz
We’ve had Charles Bronson and Toshiro Mifune, Michael Douglas and Ken Takakura, Tom Cruise and Ken Watanabe, now we have George Keneddy and Yûsaku Matsuda… in a film with a quite good story but poor execution.
It’s very 70s (the shooting style, the music, the clothing… ugh) and with sub-par acting unfortunately. It felt distinctly like a B-movie to me
Which is a shame because the story - a tragic one about the wounds left by the war, or more specifically those of the American occupation in Japan after WW2 - is quite good and also surprising (for a co-production) in that it put the US GIs in such a bad light. I suppose at the time the Americans were still reeling from the more recent senseless war they had been in, and didn’t much care if someone told some uncomfortable truths…
The part in New York ( 
) was perhaps the most fun, what with a bar-room brawl (that counts for something in the very last scene of the film) and even a car chase through the city.
Oh and also, there are short appearances from Toshiro Mifune and Broderick Crawford.
But those were not enough to make a good film out of it.
Only a 6/10 for this one.
PS here: The English dialog had hardcoded subtitles in Japanese, vertical mode. I only managed to read one, two words at most before the lines changed. This is depressing!!! 
な殺しの霊歌 / I, the Executioner
1968, Tai Katô
The film begins with the brutal murder of a woman in a hotel room, once she’s given her killer a list of four names of other women. We are shown the killer, but we don’t know who he is, nor his motives. Soon after, a second woman is murdered.
The police investigate, suspecting a link between these killings and the suicide of a young man not long before.
zzz
91mins long, but intense throughout with a string of violent murders that don’t really make sense even when the motive behind this killing spree is revealed - however, when the mystery is unveiled, it’s an unusual, disturbing one and credits to the filmmakers for approaching it 
heavy spoiler about the cause of it all, don't read if you plan to see it
The five women raped the young man, leading him to suicide…
It’s shot in a… stylish way, let’s say. The camera is either placed very low or shoved into characters’ faces, and most of the time with something in the foreground to obstruct the view - the three snaps below are taken in the span of a couple of minutes from the same scene.
I won’t deny that these techniques can produce some stunning images now and then, but when they’re used continuously it just becomes tiresome - or at least it did so for me
And then the soundtrack… another one that did not work at all for me. Groove/Funk jazz mixed with some sort of romantic songs that don’t have lyrics just vocalizations (la-la-laaaaa-la… whatever). Quite annoying! There were a couple of moments with more mellow/slow jazz but too few 
What I did really like though, was seeing Chieko Baishô again ( ) here in an early role - she may not be the showy flashy type, but still very beautiful in a more “normal” sort of way
7.5/10
I’ve had my suspicions for a while that the language in older films was quite a bit different than ‘current’ Japanese. But at the same time I was thinking maybe it’s just myself making excuses for not understanding a whole lot from what I was hearing
However, now a Japanese colleague at work confirmed it. We were talking about 東京物語 and the way Setsuko Hara speaks in it, and according to her (for reference, she’s in her early 30s):
はらせつこさんの話し方はとても独特です。
My aunt is very good at imitating her, but it is very difficult for me. 声の出し方から違います。
We lost much of the culture that we had, after World War unfortunately.
So…yeah… all those 40s-50s-early 60s films I’ve been watching? Not really useful for language learning
Yesterday evening I put on a couple of eps from the Nier: Automata anime and sure enough, it was considerably easier to pick up stuff…
That’s not to say I’ll stop watching oldies, they’re way too nice to miss out on More to come on Sunday’s summary post, as usual
(And… at some point I gotta work up the courage and engage more with this workplace colleague - like… actually using Japanese Now the prospect is still quite scary 
)
My first attempt with learning Japanese was with the Assimil method, which was first published in 1985. It’s full of dialogs. When I showed them to a native, she said, “why are you learning old language?? 
”
So yeah, I can imagine with the movies you watch, that it’s even worse 
(I also have a colleague that I’ve heard is married to a Japanese woman but I haven’t approached him yet!)
1985 !?!?!
Okay yes I had seen various advice around “avoiding old books” but I thought they were referring to 19th Century or earlier (kinda like maybe not the best idea to start learning English by reading Shakespeare), not… materials from 40-50 years ago
It’s funny because I do watch a lot of US oldies too but I can’t say I’ve spotted changes with English. Sure, some words are rarely used now and there may be the odd funny phrase once in a blue moon, but sentence patterns and speaking style were no different then than they are today; or at least definitely not standing out in any way…
I think natives can definitely detect the vibes.
For example in Assimil they still read 私 わたくし
Oh yes, I am very familiar with わたくし and あたくし - the latter cropped up in a 1962 ‘contemporary setting’ film only last evening
Now that I think about it… for the Japanese today these readings may be as awkward as ‘thou’ and ‘thy’ might be for English people
Here’s a wild one, when my friend recommended Slam Dunk to me (started in the 90s), she was a bit worried due to it being “older” Japanese 
she said Japanese changes fast, and doubly so for conversational or slang Japanese. sheesh
It’s only scary the first time. After that it’s endlessly interesting and fun, and you’ll wonder why you didn’t start it earlier. So… figure out if your colleague can be persuaded by treating her to a snack/coffee and set up a regular 20-30 minute date 
again!
Soon enough Genki will be in peril
Oh I’d love to but… there’s just one small problem: that of some 9000km between us
Huh, some online distance calculator says 8877.20km as the crow flies from Bucharest to Tokyo… Gotta love that .20 though, sure it’s not .23?
But she’s open enough: when she heard I started studying she was “Oh how nice, let’s meet on Zoom and talk in Japanese!”
Yeah… no!!! 怖 い、 怖 い！
I can barely ask my cat if he wants to eat or play aaand… that’s about it </hangs head in shame/>
(Even in English… there’s always that nagging feeling ‘what if you say something that’s normal when talking to an American for example, yet terribly rude for a Japanese?’ - funny how this extends only to the Japanese, I’ve zero such problems otherwise…)
actually, now it’s making sense that it’s on the 3rd edition already!
conversation practice
haha, actually, that’s way easier tbh because then if you’re on zoom or skype she can type anything quickly that you don’t catch from hearing. I constantly miss the simplest stuff. Although you watch so many Japanese films, I guess you’ll be way ahead of me. An example: my friend was saying something I didn’t catch all of and I was like
ここのかかん は何ですか. Of course it was 九日間. It’s funny how even reading the kana it’s obvious, but my auditory processing of stuff like that is still slow or I’ll just forget how to say the simplest things. And I read that all the time from people on here, so I don’t sweat it, it’s just a totally different skill that I don’t/can’t get as much practice with.
so…
well, you’ll be equally tongue-tied now or if you start in 5 years, my bet is it will get harder for your ego with each passing year, so better just bite the bullet now and figure out sooner it’s actually a lot of fun, haha, sorry I can’t help evangalising this
I’d say clear the air once in English that you have that anxiety, and then you quickly realise that everything you output is so simple, she won’t be offended by anything because it is just so obvious what you really meant, or that you are a beginner to speaking Japanese. Honestly, even aside from that, a) you seem to be genuinely interested in Japanese culture so I don’t think you will have any problems and b) my friend tells me that politeness registers or general cultural faux-pas come across different from foreigners. Of course, it’s great when a non-Japanese person can really get it right or be very culturally sensitive, and that is highly respected. But you get a wide leeway for making mistakes. They know a fair amount about western culture to understand your intent and… they just know Japanese is tough. Once I asked my friend how I should refer to my SO to her vs to her family vs a stranger (or something like that, a “I say xsan to so and so” type question) - and she wasn’t really sure how to answer that on the spot. Later she send me a spreadsheet 
ah… right. and that for just about every relationship. She said it makes new social situations incredibly stressful. No kidding.
Anyhoo, How good is her English? It would be cool if she would get something out of a classic language exchange - 20-30 minutes each language because then you can be more consistent about it without imposing, i.e., once a week. Anyway, that’s how I started, and then that developed into a really close friendship.
And apologies, I hope I am not putting on too much pressure Since that worked out so well for me (and I had only gone through Genki Ch 3 at the time), I just get really overenthusiastic trying to talk other people into this.
more reply, I like this conversation
Give yourself some credit @mitrac , wasn’t obvious to me at all! 
Agreed! And the mistakes and the shame are part of learning too! You will never remember something better than if you embarrass yourself 
All that being said, I’m also one that doesn’t want to bother a “real” person with my poor Japanese, I think it’s an easier road to walk with something that wants to be your language partner (or that is paid for it, like on iTalki). Real-life person can have so many downsides. Person’s schedule is busy, they don’t have time for you as much as you’d like to “use” them, they don’t correct you, so many aspects that I feel like things iTalki teachers fixes nicely.
conversation about conversation
That makes me feel better thanks! Maybe the kana only felt obvious now I know the answer amongst all the other words that I’m barely catching, it feels like I’m not expecting simple words either, so I’m more likely to miss a word I already know if it’s a simple word plus particle, or simple word plus some compound. It’s like the particle or suffix bypass my identification of simple words. My brain starts considering longer more complicated words.
Such a good point! There needs to be something in it for both people to not turn into a burden on someone and fizzle out. I feel extraordinarily lucky that I met my friend. It was really just at the time we were both looking for a serious exchange, and then we were both disciplined about making it happen. Right now we wouldn’t look for that, but we keep the same time since it’s more social now and the language just happens to swap right at half past the hour.
A couple other people I met in the same context at the same time, it ended up not quite clicking, was always a bit awkward and gradually we let it go (also awkward).
In that regard, I’m guessing you’re right an italki teacher might avoid a lot of awkward situations
more
Yeah, I think it’s more natural that your teacher becomes your friend, rather than your friend becomes your teacher.
Hope I’ll find my teacher / friend and get a relationship as good as yours one day 
man_facepalming: kay, this is going to be a loooong post
First, let’s try to keep it a little on track with the topic, then follow up on the other conversation.
What did I watch this week? Weeell…
樹氷のよろめき / Affair in the Snow
1968, Yoshishige Yoshida
A woman goes with her current lover to an isolated resort somewhere in 北海道. She wants to break it off, but it turns into a weird love triangle as she also looks up a former partner with whom she only had a ‘platonic’ relationship, and they all spend a few days together.
zzz
Not a lot to say here, didn’t really like this one. It was filmed and staged and felt like a French New Wave flick, which is most definitely not my cup of tea. The lady was a little off in the head and so were her two lovers
Being filmed in Hokkaido, it did have some very nice scenery
Oh and for the score, it seemed to have only one tune that was replayed endlessly - it was nice enough the first couple of times, but grew to be extremely annoying due to the incessant repetition
雨月物語 / Ugetsu
1953, Kenji Mizoguchi
16th Century Japan. Two farmers with big dreams - one of becoming a famed pottery maker, the other of becoming a lengendary samurai - (or maybe it’s just a little ol’ fashioned greed at play?) set out to make their fortunes without much regard for their families against the backdrop of an ongoing civil war. Temptations abound, with dire consequences…
zzz
A captivating story that is part historical drama, part ghost story, part morality fable.
All glued together by outstanding cinematography (that scene on the lake!) with carefully arranged sets and excellent use of light and shadow - just… beautiful!
Plus an unsettling, effective sound design… and I’m not one for traditional Japanese music otherwise, but it works here.
Plus good acting, yet leaning on the theatrical side - it goes well with the period setting, but might not be to everyone’s tastes; I for one liked it… and have now finally given up hope of ever seeing Masayuki Mori in a “truly good guy” role
I think the dudes had it a little too good in the end, but oh well…
Loved it!
(Oh and yeah, welcome to my new scoring system, that is to say no more scores - just “love”, “like”, “crap” and variations thereof 
)
生きる / Ikiru
1952, Akira Kurosawa
Kanji Watanabe is a civil servant who worked in the same department for 30 years, and his private life is just as monotonous as his job.
When he finds out he has stomach cancer and only a short time left, rather than giving in to despair he sets out to live a little… and in the process finding out what a fulfilling life might mean.
zzz
Recently I was lamenting the lack of Christmas films from Japan. Well, strictly speaking this one isn’t a “festive season” film either, however…
In a way it is the opposite of Frank Capra’s It’s a Wonderful Life (isn’t that the epitome of Christmas films?), in another it is its perfect companion.
Despite the grim subject matter and despite Watanabe’s realization of the empty life he’s been living, by the end you’d be severely hard-pressed not to feel a similar warmth and sense of wonder… and it may even make one consider one’s own path so far.
70+ years old it may be, but just as relevant today in a world littered with little cogs in the machines of big corporations…
Because it’s a (deceptively?) simple film about life and its limits, and how not to waste it. That’s all
Yes yes, I loved this one too 
浮草 / Floating Weeds
1959, Yasujirô Ozu
Komajuro is the leader of an itinerant theatre troupe. When he takes them to a small island town, his current partner finds out that he’s there to see an old flame and his illegitimate son (who knows the actor as “his uncle”). Feeling threatened she decides to meddle, with unpleasant consequences…
zzz
TLDR: Ayako Wakao
My first Ozu in colour, but now as a rewatch after about 30 years I think.
Okay, it’s no Panavision/Vistavision/something-something, but it’s still very pretty what with all the colourful kimonos on display
It’s somewhat of a departure from the usual Ozu films:
- First, we don’t get middle-class marital woes this time around.
- Second, it has unexpected violence and foul language.
- Third, there seemed to be more stiffness in the acting than usual, with borderline annoyance at the repetions of certain lines.
- Finally, the story itself, although a very fine bitter-sweet mix, wasn’t (to me) quite as captivating as others.
What does not change though is the excellent staging and cinematography, even with a crew different than his usual.
Now with more Ozu works under the belt, this one falls pretty low on the favourites list. But still I liked it quite a bit more than a lot of things I’ve watched this year
There’s a certain something to his way of doing cinema that pretty much guarantees an above average level of enjoyment
And besides, did I mention it has Ayako Wakao in it? She’s enough of a reason to watch it 
BTW, this one is available on YT for free: dunno how legit it is so I won’t link directly, but I reckon they’d have taken it down if it was not?
The same channel/uploader has a few other old films posted.
青空娘 / The Blue Sky Maiden / We’ll Meet Again)
1957, Yasuzô Masumura
Yuko has been living with her grandmother in the countryside. On her deathbed, the old lady tells the girl her true mother is her father’s ex-secretary. Once granny passes away, Yuko moves to Tokyo to live with her father and his family, while also looking for her biological mother.
zzz
Very lightweight and melodramatic, this is far removed from Masumura’s later works. It was his first collaboration with Ayako Wakao, many more were to come…
It must be the closest to an American film I’ve seen so far from Japan in the 50s and 60s… from what I understand even the director wasn’t particularly proud of it
Gosh, so so so much happens in the span of under 90mins:
The plot on fast-forward because anyhow noone's going to watch it :)
Yuko finds out she has a different mother → goes to Tokyo where she’s made to sleep in the closet under the stairs and act as maid by the wicked stepmother → sibling mistreats her → youngest brother changes sides → Yuko impresses guests at family party → father tries to make good, only to irk the rest of the family → Yuko loves her high-school teacher but also meets nice businessman in Tokyo → Yuko leaves stepfamily, misunderstands teacher’s relationship wth some gal → Yuko goes back to the village but misses an encounter with her mother → teacher and businessman help Yuko to get a job and to find mother → Yuko finally meets mother → father becomes ill with worry in her absence → Yuko gives father a good talking to → step-relatives suddenly bury the hatchet → back to village where we find out Yuko will marry businessman → the end
… and some other things I forgot to mention!
It’s like… more stuff happens in this one than in 4-5 Ozu films put together
Definitely a one-and-done sort of film, maaaybe better suited for a Sunday morning, if ever. But but but… Ayako Wakao!
しとやかな獣 / Elegant Beast / The Graceful Brute
1962, Yûzô Kawashima
The Maeda’s are a cheeky family: son embezzels from his workplace, daughter sucks her lover dry, the parents try to cover up for their offspring and still push them to get some more. How will they make it through once exposed? And are they really the only players at the table?
zzz
A brilliant dark comedy/social satire written by Kaneto Shindô as a chamber piece, with excellent cinematography in the cramped space of a matchbox-sized apartment, with great acting all around and a cool musical score.
The family members are the main characters, but Ayako Wakao in a smaller yet crucial role steals the show (again!?!) as the titular elegant beast…
Awesome!
Just a handful of reviews on IMDb and Letterboxd… Why is it not better known?!? Highly recommended!
(this was the one with the あたくし I mentioned the other day, although in fairness it was intentionally used versus the regular feminine あたし.
刺青/ Irezumi
1966, Yasuzô Masumura
A seductive woman elopes with her poor-means lover. She’s found, kidnapped and forced into prostitution, where she’s given a tatoo of a demonic spider.
Perhaps under the influence of the tatoo (or perhaps not), she gets revenge on those who wronged her.
zzz
Not your usual “female empowerment” film
On the one hand, Otsuya uses her beauty to ensnare men, playing them against each other and having them do her bidding, rather than becoming some ‘superhero revenge killer’ herself.
On the other, is it really the ‘cursed’ tatoo at work here, or is it just a means for Otsuya to give in to the impulses she’s always had, like a key that finally unlocked a door she had tried to keep locked?
Is she doing all this for “justice” or is it ultimately just plain ol’ greed?
Much like Otsuya herself, it’s a strongly sensual film, despite there being no nudity on display, aside from shots of her bare shoulders and the tatooed back. Or maybe it works so well specifically because we don’t get to see more than just those bits
And it has a very… Japanese ending. Let’s just say… it’s not quite a Christmas film
Shot entirely in a studio setting, even for the ‘outside’ scenes, it’s nonetheless a thing of beauty. Great cinematography, amazing colours, some a dozen or more kimonos on display… this just screams for a 4k rerelease with WCG and HDR.
I liked the film sure enough, but I absolutely loved Ayako Wakao… of course. I’m going to break my own fresh rule here and give her an 11/10 here. In terms of Wakao-ness, this one tops the chart out of the 8 I’ve watched so far. Got a few more in the watchlist
I also watched an anime - 雲のむこう、約束の場所 / The Place Promised in Our Early Days - the last one I had in the watchlist from Makoto Shinkai. Unfortunately it felt like the weakest in his portofolio: too many ideas thrown together within a chaotic and sometimes dull plot, and underdeveloped characters. He’d later separate and refine them in other, much better, films
Oh and, @Akashelia , you’ve been holding out on us:
You did not mention the French have put out A LOT of Japanese old films on Blu-ray, with some very very nice cover art too
I’ve now had unexpected expenses in December because of this… ooops!
conversation (and other) woes
Right. Sooo…
Previously I’ve only heard her speak in group calls and have read e-mails from her, it was only this week that we chatted (on Slack) for the first time and only for a bit because… work Everyone’s busier than I am it seems
Anyway, she’s pretty much fluent in English but I think there’s also a little bit of preparation at play at least for the group calls we end up in. Okay, occasionally she won’t delimitate her Rs and Ls in speech (i.e. “tlanslation”) and some times use Japanese interjections (ああー、ええー and so on) but actually I think that’s quite sweet
In any case she’s definitely much better in English than the colleagues we have in South Korea and China
And I don’t think she’d be even remotely interested in Romanian; even if she were, I wouldn’t be able to explain it, it’s such a weird, complicated language - the exceptions are prevalent over the rules
This video, if you can get past the blatant xenophobia and ignore the very offensive images, is otherwise pretty much on point and has some (not so-)fun facts about it.
Well actually, when I say ‘colleagues’ that’s probably not the best way to put it.
They’re in sales teams, while I’m in a team that provides them environments to demo product functionality to customers and prospects.
She and the others are practically our (internal) customers, and there’s also another degree of separation on the corporate ladder, what with her being an individual contributor and my being on the management side (low middle, but I guess it’s still a little nuanced and probably matters more to someone in Japan/Asia than to us).
It’s another reason why I hesitate to ask (besides the main one - shiness - of course), because she might see it as “Well, I have to…”
To be honest, the things I’m interested in are either outdated (society changes in the aftermath of WW2) and I’d need to speak to her parents or grandparents or subjects that are actively discouraged in the workplace (politics, religion, gender equality…) - corpos are mighty big on diversity and inclusion, but only if you talk happy-happy-joy-joy-inoffensive things
And anyway for such topics I’d not have the language knowledge to even get started
I’m certain you’re right about this.
My problem is… although I’m doing fairly well with recognition (in writing, much more so than in listening), production really is zero. I’m not saying more than those two extremly simple things to my cat because I honestly don’t know how, words just do not come to me. Not just vocab base but also grammar.
It’s a pretty lousy state of affairs to be honest, considering I’m now (according to BunPro progress) past the mid-way point of N3 grammar yet I can’t really do my own conjugations 
Nope, not at all
Watching everything with English subs, whatever I recognize comes from reading the subs and making the connections with what I’m hearing. Without subs, I get lost very quickly because my brain will stop at the first or second thing it recognizes and tries to process it, and once there’s something unknown it just gives up entirely 
Even with Satori, if I don’t also follow the written text while listening to the audio, it all quickly becomes a jumbled mess.
For some reason I can’t easily skip past and pick up again at the next bit I know
And then there’s also the matter of retention. As I’ve now found with Satori, I’m more or less in the same boat as the person who started the thread I’m at a loss for Immersing - outside of WK, the “99.5% of words go in one ear and out the other” statement applies to me as well; okay not 99.5 but 75-80 surely.
In fact… I’m now at a crossroads.
I’m not at all happy with my progress (and that’s entirely on me) and now I’ve a couple of weeks (until the WK sale) to decide whether I will actually continue studying or… just call it quits, failed experiment
Phew… that’s it for now, although I’m sure I’ve forgotten something
Edit - a side bit on culture, not really relevant but I just remembered it now :)
Back in March I had sent the lady the usual congratulatory note for March 8th.
Although she was aware of International Women’s Day (and before sending I did check that it was actually a thing in Japan too), she said this was the first time ever when someone actually acknowledged it to her directly
Haha, I didn’t know that! Sorry for your wallet, hope you enjoy though!
Wondering if you have numbers of how many Japanese movies have been released in the 40s, 50s, 60s, I’m guessing it has to be less than nowadays, a pretty finite list? But could be wrong too.
not about movies
Oh I didn’t know that. Somehow makes me a bit sad when someone quits. I guess because this hobby makes me so happy, I just imagine it will do the same for everyone. Maybe you could create a study log, we could talk more there and help you with finding resources you enjoy and that make you feel like you progress!
Excellent question!
Much like with the rest of the world, production has increased steadily over the decades.
I hadn’t actually looked this up until now, but of course someone had thought of it
It can be filtered by decade, year, genre…
It’s probably not 100% (my own list has 222 now and compared to that list it says I’ve only watched 217), but at almost 45k titles and last updated 4h ago… should be sufficient
1784 from the 1950s, versus 12791 from the 2010s and already 6904 from 2020s
(funny how I can’t seem to find a list of all US movies, no one bothered, no one cares, just keep on churning them )
the other thing
Ah yes, serves me right for not setting up a study log and just highjacking other people’s threads
But… what would I write in it?
How I’m much more likely to listen to a 2-3h podcast on US politics (what I’ve got on right now) than putting on some Japanese listening practice?
Sorry Shun and Teppei and the likes, you’re just not interesting enough
Very cool with the numbers! Still more than I had thought haha.
The other stuff
Yes that’s exactly the kind of stuff you could be writting about so I could have told you to join the Podcast Club, the current pick is something completely different! It’s a Japanese lady talking about the hardships she encountered when moving to the USA. Completely different than Shun and Teppei and the like, it’s aimed at natives and the content is quite interesting even for a non-American!
Hang on, now you’ve given me something to work on - gotta figure out what those extra 5 films in my list are, and pass them to the owner of the main list so they can add them, for comprehensiveness
other stuff
Now I’m not sure you’re if really looking for advice or ideas or if I’m a good one to give it. So if not, really, I would not be offended if you don’t read or reply to this!
extra context is really helpful, yeah, I think I’d also agree pass on that with your colleague, sounds like it could get awkward. Unless she brought it up out of nowhere and seemed really enthusiastic, sounds like something that would at most be a one off conversation (ultimately not helpful and potenetially rather demoralising).
Here’s a thing you might be interested in, there is a Japanese course based in Hawaii that ends with conversation practice, and by the sounds of it, the Japanese participants are on the elderly side. That could be a fun goal to work up towards. (They aren’t currently offering it, but maybe that is seasonal, keep checking back every 6 weeks or so)
If out put is a goal, then here are some more ideas, but actually, if not, maybe just don’t pressure yourself to do it?
Summary
Output even with really easy grammar - you have to start incredibly slow and easy. Like simply copying out sentences from what you studied. Then change a couple words to make a sentence apply to something that applies to you, and so on. There is a cool website called langcorrect that helps with this. And just knowing that it’s totally normal to spend half an hour on a sentence in the early days maybe helps? My first attempts were all just the exercises from Genki I - where the questions they ask are formulated such that really you just need to change the order of words or conjugation or something, and then right away there is audio that tells the answer. In the beginning, yeah, even though it was so easy, I’d have to pause the audio, sit and think for a while, then attempt to say it out loud, then listen to the audio (or check the answer key) and repeat. There was a lot of repetition of really basic stuff. Or just repeating with the practice audio. You can get all the Genki audio free from their OTO Navi app.
a process I used for getting used to speaking anything and improving listening at the same time
Also, to get through that jumble you mentioned on Satori, what helped me was sentence by sentence repeating.
- Listen + read (jumbled mess)
- Read, look up words, guess the meaning of the whole sentence, look at the whole sentence translation
- Read any underlined glosses
- Try to say it out loud (my pace), then listen and read again, repeat
- Eventually, if it’s easy enough, it becomes possible to read it out loud alongside the audio. After doing that, then listening to the audio and reading it together becomes possible. If needed, use the controls to slow down the audio for all of this. You can speed it up later!
- Repeat as much as there is stamina for.
- Repeat the same epsidode the next day, then do a new episode.
Ok, I didn’t always do that for every single sentence all the time. But if I had time, I did that quite a lot. And it really helped to get my listening up to scratch (and maybe even some output, I hadn’t thought of it like that). So don’t see yourself as a failure - you simply haven’t been practicing something like this long enough. For reference, I did that at a pace of 1 episode a day for about 1.5 years before outputting simple sentences and keeping up with the audio started getting easier. This kind of practice isn’t sexy and doesn’t get a lot of airtime on study logs. And to be honest, I wasn’t really thinking about it while I was doing it, or even expecting it to go anywhere, which is probably why I didn’t write about it. It was just something I did because I found listening and pronouncing Japanese correctly really tricky, and this kind of slow-mo very repetitive shadowing seemed like a good thing I could do alongside reading so slowly at the time anyway.
And at some point when I could read faster I let it go, so it’s not a forever thing either.
I’m with Akashelia, it would be good to hear about your passions, expectations, etc. And realistically how much time you want to invest in such a hobby. I became a lot happier with Japanese when I framed it as a lifelong endeavor ironically, that improved my feelings for the whole project and was probably a big part of helping me get over the hump that I think you’re at now.
What is your north star with Japanese? That would be a place to start with a study log or here, and then people might be able to help you rebalance your study routine to suit.
For example, your WK level is usefully high, and the things you are frustrated with have less to do with kanji as far as I can tell? I wonder if you could park that and instead put your time into Satori and shadowing everything on Human Japanese or another grammar resource. Honestly, I would have quit early on if I’d started with kanji. Grammar and vocab (from the furigana sense, not kanji recognition) were a lot more helpful getting me into interesting content. It took about 1.5 years of consistent effort on resources that have furigana anyway before I was bumping into anything approaching needing even elementary kanji recognition. It’s a pretty contrary opinion on this sub, and not helpful for people who get a lot out of WK, though, so I don’t often put it out there.
One thing to know - learning Japanese in the early days for me - it felt like bumping my head into a wall at low motivation for ~6 years (I didn’t put much consistent effort in, so this was definitely not necessary). Then from the point in time when I really engaged with reading daily and my study log (I had an injury on my hand and my feet, so other hobbies and sports fell away), then I experienced pretty dramatic progress. I was still crashing against a wall until suddenly that wall was gone, but even before the wall broke down I could at least tell I was getting further. That is just to say, at any point in time over 7 years, I definitely could have just called it quits, and I was close to doing that. My advice to past me would have been - know why you’re doing this and if that is worth it, then find a way to do something daily come hell or high water. Talk a lot with people about both of those things (your why and what you’re doing daily, that’s what goes in the study log week to week), that gives you feedback, more motivation, and the weekly log really pushed me especially early on to be consistent so I had something to actually write. And just keep going for a year without judgment or expectation.
@mitrac @Akashelia
Thank you, both! Really appreciate you both taking the time to reply on a tangent
Not going to respond in regards to ‘the other thing’ now/here, I’ll start another thread but not today 'cause there’s thoughts to put in order and in writing, it’ll take forever
(prolly not a study log as such, though)
Just finished it a little earlier. I loved and hated not loved it at the same time
But even so I’ll still second your recommendation
some zzz on it
The three stories were all very good and the dialogue was great!
The second one was… not ‘the weakest’ - that’s not a proper term for it as it wasn’t weak by any means - let’s say… least impactful. I’m a-gonna need a transcript for it as I doubt some of the vocab used in it will ever appear in Satori stories, if you know what I mean
Third one was the most fleshed out so it comes out on top, but I’d have loved a ‘full-length feature film’ of the first one, which I think had the most potential…
Now what I didn’t like:
- The cinematograpy had no soul to it, it was all quite bland, generic - maybe they went for the ‘realism’ angle but with so many other keen eyes coming out of Japan (both old and new) it just felt amateurish and not giving a damn to me.
- The delivery of said excellent dialogue was… sub-par at best. Pretty much all actors felt like they were… painfully aware of the camera, and that induced stiffness in their acting. There were some (a few) good moments but overall disappointing.
Oh and some of the clothing style choices for the ladies were… aaaargh!
It seemed the goal with that was to make the women not in the least bit attractive
Listening-wise (aided by English subs as usual ):
#1 was the easiest to follow, #3 in second spot (but not really close) and #2 last, mainly because of the lisp (hope that’s the correct term?) the actress had.