Japanese-Japanese Book Club Enquiry

Hello all!

The purpose of this post is to explore the idea of starting a book club where we not only read in Japanese, but also discuss in Japanese! Forums are a uniquely wonderful place to practice both writing and conversation skills, a sort of shallow end where you can converse with others while still taking the time you need to compose what you mean to say without feeling any (external) pressure.

My ideas

Note: a few lines are bolded for easy TLDR

I have thought about this a lot, and my initial vision was of a low-pressure environment, like a book club that meets up at a bar. A place where people can feel comfortable just saying whatever theyโ€™re thinking, even if their command of the language is less than (or not at all) perfect.

It might help to choose a book that either was previously discussed in another book club, or one thatโ€™s currently being read in another book club. That way any hardcore grammar questions can be answered in English in another thread, and we can focus on chatting about the story and whatever else comes up in Japanese.

To keep the atmosphere more like a social club (in Japanese), rather than a language class, I think it might help to not do any grammar correction in-thread. Correcting each other in-thread could derail the focus on conversation, and might also make folks more self-conscious and embarrassed of their own mistakes (thus making them more hesitant to participate).

More on that: Most of us have plenty of opportunities to study intensively (for example in the ABBC and the BBC); this club would be focusing on the skill of actually getting words out there in the first place, making it clear what youโ€™re trying to say even if you donโ€™t have the right words, getting into the flow of a conversation. (But all that in the low-pressure environment of a forum, where you have plenty of time to compose yourself and look up words if you straight up canโ€™t remember them โ€ฆ) Speaking from personal experience, you may be surprised how much youโ€™re able to communicate, even if youโ€™ve literally never tried to communicate in Japanese before!

Of course, if we donโ€™t understand what someoneโ€™s trying to say it would be fine to ask them for clarification, or if they make a really embarrassing mistake just warning them about it as an aside, or if they make a really funny mistake sharing the joke in a gentle way. That all seems like good bar banter. :joy:

My last (but not least) point: the WaniKani forums are a great place, but right now they are mainly accessible to people who speak English with relative ease. Although chatting in Japanese might be harder for a lot of us, it may also be easier for others, and how awesome would it be to be able to get to know those folks as well?!

NB I have run a similar book club before (on a different forum) but my own Japanese communication are (still) only ใพใ ใพใ  / very basic. In my view, this club will not be about achieving perfection, but rather making the attempt to achieve real communication.

However, this all depends on having a group of people who have more or less the same goal in mind! So if youโ€™re interested, please share any suggestions, preferences, ideas, etc! :slight_smile:

Now for some polls!

  • Iโ€™m interested in this idea!
  • I am interested but have some reservations โ€ฆ
  • I am not interested
  • I just really need to click a poll

0 voters

From this point on, please only answer if you are interested (with or without reservations) in participating!

What is your reading level?
  • Absolute Beginner
  • Beginner
  • Intermediate
  • Advanced

0 voters

What level is your Japanese communication ability at?
  • Absolute Beginner
  • Beginner
  • Intermediate
  • Advanced

0 voters

What would you be most interested in reading?
  • Something from a previous or current book club
  • Something new!
  • Either
  • Letโ€™s decide later during nominations and voting

0 voters

What do you think would be the best way to have a lively and fun discussion in Japanese?
  • Japanese-only thread focused on the story with little to no discussion of grammar
  • Japanese-only thread with story and grammar discussions (to the extent that we are able)
  • Japanese-only story discussion thread paired with a Japanese-only grammar thread
  • Japanese-only story discussion thread paired with a grammar thread (in any language)
  • Something else! (Explain in comments, please!)

0 voters

What about the administrative stuff?
  • Letโ€™s have a nominations and voting thread in English
  • Letโ€™s have a nominations and voting thread in Japanese
  • Letโ€™s have a nominations and voting thread where we can use either language
  • Something else

0 voters

These polls are just to get the ball rolling and get a sense of whoโ€™s interested. Iโ€™m sure I havenโ€™t thought of everything or explained it all perfectly, so comments of all sorts and on all aspects are welcome! ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๆ›ธใใฎใฏใ‚‚ใฃใจๅฎนๆ˜“ใ„ใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใใ‚Œใ‚’ใ—ใฆใใ ใ•ใ„ใ€‚

ใฟใ‚“ใชใ•ใ‚“ใ€ใ‚ใ‚ŠใŒใจใ†ใ”ใ–ใ„ใพใ—ใŸ๏ผ ใ‚ˆใ‚ใ—ใใŠ้ก˜ใ„ใ„ใŸใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใ„ใ„ใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ฃใ‚ขใงใ™ใ‚ˆใญ๏ผ

ใ‚ใพใ‚Šๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๆ›ธใ‹ใชใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๆ›ธใ„ใŸใ‚‰ใ„ใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ€‚ใงใ‚‚ใ€่‹ฑ่ชžใ‚ˆใ‚Šๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๅฏพ่ซ‡ใ—ใซใใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๆ™ฎ้€šใ‚ˆใ‚Šใ‚ใ‹ใ‚Šใ‚„ใ™ใ„ๆœฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚ใฐใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ๆ™ฎ้€šใซใ€ใกใ‚‡ใฃใจ้›ฃใ—ใ„ๆœฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚“ใงใ‚‚ใ„ใ„ใ€่‹ฑ่ชžใง่ชฌๆ˜Žใ‚‚ใ‚‰ใˆใพใ™ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€‚ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๅฏพ่ซ‡ใ—ใŸใ‚‰่ชฌๆ˜Žใ‚‚ใกใ‚‡ใฃใจใ‚ใ‹ใ‚Šใซใใ„ใ‹ใ‚‚ใ—ใ‚Œใพใ›ใ‚“ใ€‚

ใใ‚Œใงใ‚‚ใ€ๅ…จ็„ถๆฅฝใ—ใใ†ใงใ™๏ผ

ใ“ใฎ้–“ใฏๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’ๅˆใ‚ใฆๆ›ธใใ€‚่‹ฆๆ‰‹ใ ๏ผˆ ๏ฝ‰ _ ๏ฝ‰ ๏ผ‰ใงใ‚‚ใ€้ ‘ๅผตใ‚ŠใŸใ„(^-^)

็งใ‚‚ใ€ใ“ใฎใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ฃใ‚ขใฏใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ๆœ€่ฟ‘ใ€็งใฏๆ–‡็ซ ใ‚’ๆ›ธใใพใ›ใ‚“ใงใ—ใŸใ€‚ๅคšๅˆ†ใ€2ๅนดๅ‰ใ€ๆ›ธใ‘ใ‚‹ใ“ใจใฏๅคงไธˆๅคซใงใ™ใŒใ€ไปŠใฏใกใ‚‡ใฃใจใ€‚ใ€‚ใ€‚ใงใ‚‚ใ€้ ‘ๅผตใ‚Šใพใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใญใ€‚

็งใ‚‚ใ€‚

ใ“ใฎใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒ–ใฎ็›ฎ็š„ใฏๆœฌใฎ็›ธ่ซ‡ใ™ใ‚‹ใ“ใจใงใ™ใญใ€‚ใ ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ใ‚ใ‹ใ‚Šใ‚„ใ™ใ„ๆœฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚ใ‚‹ใ“ใจใฎใฏใจใฆใ‚‚ใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญใ€‚

็งใ‚‚ใ“ใ‚Œใซ่ˆˆๅ‘ณใŒใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ™๏ผๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๅฏพ่ซ‡ใฏใ™ใ”ใ้›ฃใ—ใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€ไธŠๆ‰‹ใซใชใ‚‹ใŸใ‚ใซใ‚‚ใฃใจ็ทด็ฟ’ใ—ใŸใ‚‰ใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญใ€‚

็งใ‚‚ๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใ‚„ใ™ใ„ๆœฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚ใฐใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ใใ‚ŒไปฅไธŠใ€้ข็™ฝใ„ใ‚นใƒˆใƒผใƒชใƒผใ‚’ๆŒใฃใŸๆœฌใซใ—ใŸใ‚‰ใ„ใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ€‚ใกใ‚‡ใฃใจ่ค‡้›‘ใช็Šถๆณใซใคใ„ใฆ่ชญใ‚ใฐใ€ใ„ใ„ๅฏพ่ซ‡ใซใชใ‚‹ใฏใšใงใ™ใ€‚ใ—ใ‹ใ—้ธใ‚“ใ ๆœฌใฏ้›ฃใ—ใ™ใŽใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใใ‚Œใฏๅคงๅค‰ใงใ™ใญใ€‚ใƒใƒฉใƒณใ‚นใŒๅ–ใ‚ŒใŸใปใ†ใŒใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ๅฎŸใฏใ€็งใ‚‚ๅŒใ˜ใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใŒใ‚ใฃใŸใ‘ใฉใ€ใกใ‚‡ใฃใจ้›ฃใ—ใ™ใŽใ‚‹ใ‹ใช๏ผŸใจๆ€ใฃใฆใ€ใ‚ใพใ‚ŠWanikaniใงๅ‚ๅŠ ใ™ใ‚‹ๆ™‚้–“ใ‚‚ใชใ„ใฎใงใ€่ซฆใ‚ใกใ‚ƒใฃใŸใ€‚ใ ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€@MaraVosใซใ™ใ”ใๆ„Ÿ่ฌใ—ใฆใ„ใ‚‹ใ€‚ :smile: ใ‚‚ใกใ‚ใ‚“ใ€ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใง่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ‚’ใ™ใ‚‹ใฎใฏ่‰ฏใ„ๆ›ธใ็ทด็ฟ’๏ผˆ็‰นใซๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใง่€ƒใˆใ‚‹็ทด็ฟ’๏ผ‰ใซใชใ‚Œใ‚‹ใ‘ใฉใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชž๏ผˆ็‰นใซๆผขๅญ—๏ผ‰ใฎ็ทด็ฟ’ใซใ‚‚ใชใ‚Œใ‚‹๏ผ

@MaraVosใฎใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใซๅฏพใ—ใฆ

ใใ†ใงใ™ใญใ€‚ใ“ใฎใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒƒใƒ–ใฎ็›ฎ็š„ใฏๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใง่€ƒใˆใฆใ€ๆ–‡็ซ ใ‚’ไฝœใ‚‹ใฎใงใ€็ฐกๅ˜ใชๆœฌใจใ‹ใ€ใฟใ‚“ใชใฏ็Ÿฅใฃใฆใ„ใ‚‹ๆœฌใจใ‹ใ€ๅ‰ใฎใƒ–ใƒƒใ‚ฏใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒƒใƒ–ใง่‹ฑ่ชžใง็›ธ่ซ‡ใงใใ‚‹ๆœฌใฏใƒ™ใ‚นใƒˆใ‹ใช๏ผŸ

่ณ›ๆˆ๏ผใ‚‚ใ†ไธ€ใคใฎๆ–‡ๆณ•ใฎใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใŒใ„ใ„ใ‹ใช๏ผŸ่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ‚’ๆ›ธใ„ใŸๅพŒใงใ€ใ€Œ็งใฎๆ–‡ๆณ•ใ‚’็›ดใ—ใฆๆฌฒใ—ใ„ใ€ใ‚’ใŠ้ก˜ใ„ใ—ใฆใฐใ„ใ„ใ‹ใช๏ผŸใใ—ใฆใ€ๆœฌๅฝ“ใซๆ–‡ๆณ•ใฏไธๅฎ‰ใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ‹ใ€ใŠไบ’ใ„ใซๅŠฉใ‘ใ‚‰ใ‚Œใ‚‹ใ€‚ใ‚‚ใ—ใ€ๆ–‡ๆณ•ใ‚’ๅฟƒ้…ใ›ใšใซใ€ๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚‹ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใง้ ‘ๅผตใฃใฆใ€่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ ใ‘ใ—ใŸใ„ใชใ‚‰ใ€ใใ‚Œใงใ‚‚ใงใใ‚‹ใจๆ€ใ†ใ€‚

่ณ›ๆˆ๏ผ

่‰ฏใ„็‚นใ‚’็ชใ„ใฆใ‚‹ใญ๏ผๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’ๅ‹‰ๅผทใ—ใฆใ„ใ‚‹ใฎใซใ€ไปฃๆ›ฟใฟใ‚“ใชใฏ่‹ฑ่ชžใงไผš่ฉฑใ™ใ‚‹ใ€‚ๆ—ฅๆœฌใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใŸใใ•ใ‚“ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงใƒšใƒฉใƒšใƒฉๅค–ๅ›ฝไบบใŒใ„ใ‚‹ใ€‚่‹ฑ่ชžใงไผš่ฉฑใงใใชใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€ไป•ไบ‹ใฎใŸใ‚ใซๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’่ฉฑใ›ใ‚‹ใ€‚่‹ฑ่ชžไปฅๅค–็ฌฌไธ€่จ€่ชžใฎไบบใฏใ‚‚ใฃใจๆฅฝใ‹ใช๏ผŸ

ใƒผ๏ผ๏ผ๏ผ๏ผ๏ผ

ใ‚ใจใ€ใ‚‚ใ†ไธ€ใคใฎใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใฏใ‚ˆใไฝฟใ†่กจ็พใจ่จ€่‘‰ใฎใ‚ฌใ‚คใƒ‰ใจใ‹ไฝœใฃใŸๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใ€‚ๅคšๅˆ†ใ€่ˆˆๅ‘ณใŒใ‚ใ‚‹ไบบใฏๅคšใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€ใฉใ‚“ใช่จ€่‘‰ใ‚’ไฝฟใฃใฆใฐใ„ใ„ใจไธๅฎ‰ใซใชใ‚‹ใ‹ใช๏ผŸ

ใ‚ฌใ‚คใƒ‰ใŒใ‚ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใ‚„ใ™ใใชใ‚‹ใ—ใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจๅ‚ๅŠ ใ—ใŸใ„ไบบใ‚‚ๅข—ใˆใ‚‹ใ‹ใช๏ผŸใจใใซใ€็š†ใ•ใ‚“ใฎใƒฌใƒ™ใƒซใฏ้•ใ†ใฎใงใ€ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’่ชญใ‚€ใ“ใจใ ใ‘ใฏใ‹ใชใ‚Šๅคงๅค‰ใ ใ—ใ€ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’ๆ›ธใ็ทด็ฟ’ใฏ็„กใ—ใงใ€็ช็„ถๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’ๆ›ธใใฎใฏใกใ‚‡ใฃใจ้›ฃใ—ใ„ใ™ใŽใ‚‹ใ‹ใ‚‚ใ—ใ‚Œใชใ„ใญใ€‚๏ผˆ็งใฏ้€†ใ ใ‘ใฉใ€‚ๆ›ธใใฎใฏ็ฐกๅ˜ใ ใ‘ใฉใ€ๆผขๅญ—ใ‚’่ชญใ‚€ใฎใฏๅคงๅค‰ :sweat_smile:๏ผ‰

็งใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ€Œdiscussionใ€ใจไฝ•ใจใ„ใ†ใ‹ใช๏ผŸใจๆ€ใฃใฆใ€็š†ใ•ใ‚“ใฎ่ฟ”ไบ‹ใ‚’่ชญใ‚“ใ ๅพŒใงใ€ๅคซใจ็›ธ่ซ‡ใ—ใŸใ€‚ใ€Œๅฏพ่ซ‡ใ€ใ‚ˆใ‚Šใ€Œ่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ€ใจใ‹ใ€Œๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ€ใจใ‹ใฎๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใจ่จ€ใฃใŸใ€‚

ใชใ‚“ใ‹ใ€ใ€Œๅฏพ่ซ‡ใ€ใฏใ‚‚ใฃใจ้‡ใŸใใฆใ€็œŸๅ‰ฃใช่ฉฑใงไฝฟใ„ใใ†ใงใ™ใ€‚ไพ‹ใˆใฐใ€ๆ”ฟๆฒปใฎๅฏพ่ซ‡ใ€‚ใƒ–ใƒƒใ‚ฏใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒƒใƒ–ใซๅฏพใ—ใฆใ€ใ€Œ่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ€ใฏใ‚‚ใฃใจ่ปฝใใฆใ€ๆฅฝใ—ใใ†ใช่ฉฑใ€‚ไพ‹ใˆใฐใ€ใ€Œใฟใ‚“ใชใฏๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’็ทด็ฟ’ใ™ใ‚‹ใŸใ‚ใซใ€ใƒ–ใƒƒใ‚ฏใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒƒใƒ–ใงๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ‚’ใ™ใ‚‹ใ€‚ใ€

ใ€Œๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ€ใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎใ€Œใใฎๆœฌใซๅฏพใ—ใฆimpressionsใจใ‹feelingsใ€ใฎๆ„ๅ‘ณใซใชใ‚‹ใ€‚ไพ‹ใˆใฐใ€ใ€ŒไปŠๆ—ฅใฎ่ชญใ‚“ใ ๅˆ†ใฎๆ„Ÿๆƒณใฏ๏ผŸใ€ใจ่จ€ใˆใ‚‹ใ€‚

ใ€Œๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใงๆœฌ้ƒจใซ่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ„ใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ‹๏ผŸใ€

ใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญใ€‚ใ‚ณใƒŸใƒฅใƒ‹ใ‚ฑใƒผใ‚ทใƒงใƒณ่จ“็ทดใ ใ‘ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใ€‚ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใฎ้›ฐๅ›ฒๆฐ—ใงใ™๏ผ

่จ€่ชžใ‚’่ฆšใˆใ‚‹ใฎใซใฏไฝฟใ†ใ“ใจใŒ้žๅธธใซๅคงไบ‹ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ๆ™ฎๆฎตๆ€ฅใŒใ—ใ„ใงใ™ใŒใ€ๅ‡บๆฅใ‚‹็ฏ„ๅ›ฒใ ใ‘ใฏๅ‚ๅŠ ใ—ใŸใ„ใงใ™ใ€‚
ใกใ‚‡ใฃใจๆฐ—ใซใชใ‚‹ใ“ใจใ‚‚ใ‚ใ‚‹ใฎใงใ€่€ƒใˆใŒใ‚ใ‚Œใฐใœใฒๆ•™ใˆใฆใใ ใ•ใ„ใ€‚

1- ใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใ‹ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‹ใฉใกใ‚‰ใ‚’ไฝฟใ„ใพใ™ใ‹๏ผŸๆ—ฅๆœฌใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ“ใ†ใ„ใ†ใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒ–ใฏๆ•ฌ่ชžใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใ‹ใจๆ€ใ†ใ‚“ใงใ™ใ‘ใฉใ€่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎ็ตŒ้จ“ใ‹ใ‚‰่จ€ใ†ใจๆ—ฅๅธธไผš่ฉฑใงใฏใปใจใ‚“ใฉไฝฟใ‚ใชใ„ใฎใงใ€ใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใฎๆ–นใŒ้€†ใซๅฝนใซ็ซ‹ใคใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใ‹ใชใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ—ใŸใ€‚

2- ไป–ไบบ๏ผˆ็‰นใซๅˆๅฟƒ่€…๏ผ‰ใฎๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใซๅฏพใ—ใฆใฏใ€่จ‚ๆญฃใ—ใฆใปใ—ใ„ไบบใจ่จ‚ๆญฃใ—ใฆใปใ—ใใชใ„ไบบใซๅˆ†ใ‘ใŸๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใ‹ใญใ€‚ใฉใ‚“ใชใคใ‚‚ใ‚Šใงใ‚‚ใ€่จ‚ๆญฃใ•ใ‚ŒใฆๅซŒใชๆฐ—ๆŒใกใซใชใ‚‹ไบบใ‚‚ไฝ•ไบบใ‹ใ„ใ‚‹ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใ‚ˆใ‚ใ—ใใŠ้ก˜ใ„ใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใใ†ใงใ™ใญใ€‚ใƒฉใ‚คใƒณใ‚ฐใƒซใƒผใƒ—ใงใ‚‚ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใ„ใพใ™ใ‚ˆใญใ€‚ใ‚‚ใ—ใ€ใฟใ‚“ใชใฏใจใฆใ‚‚ไปฒใŒใ„ใ„ๅ‹้”ใ ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใ†ใ‘ใฉใ€ๆ™ฎ้€šใซใƒกใƒƒใ‚ปใƒผใ‚ธใƒœใƒผใƒ‰ใฏ็Ÿฅใ‚‰ใชใ„ไบบใ ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๆ•ฌ่ชžใฏใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญใ€‚ๅฐ‘ใชใใฆใ‚‚ใ€ใ‚ขใƒณใ‚ฑใƒผใƒˆใจใ‹ใฏๆ•ฌ่ชžใฎๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใ€‚ใงใ‚‚ใ€ใ‚„ใฃใฑใ‚Šใ€่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎๅ‹‰ๅผทใฎใŸใ‚ใซ๏ผˆ็‰นใซใ€ๆœฌใซๅฏพใ—ใฆ่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใ‚’ใ™ใ‚‹ๆ™‚๏ผ‰ใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใฃใฆใฟใŸใ„ใชใ‚‰ใ€ใใ‚Œใงใ‚‚ใ„ใ„ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ‹๏ผŸ

ๅ•้กŒใจ่จ€ใ†ใ‹ใ€ๆฐ—ใซใชใ‚‹ใฎใฏใ€ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใƒกใƒƒใ‚ปใƒผใ‚ธใŒ้•ทใ่ฆ‹ใˆใพใ™ใ€‚ใ ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใซใจใฃใฆใ€ใใ‚Œใฏใกใ‚‡ใฃใจๆ€–ใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ใ€Œใ‚‚ใ†่ชญใ‚ใชใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ใ“ใฎใ‚นใƒฌใ‚’้ฃ›ใฐใใ†ใ€ใจๆ€ใ†ใ‹ใ‚‚ใ—ใ‚Œใชใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๆœ€ๅˆใฎใ‚นใƒฌใฏใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใงๆ›ธใ„ใฆใ—ใพใ„ใพใ—ใŸ :sweat_smile:

ใคใพใ‚Šใ€ไบŒใคใฎใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใ‚’ไฝœใฃใŸๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญ๏ผŸ็งใ‚‚่ณ›ๆˆใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚

ๅ…ˆใซใ€ๆกไปถใ‚’ๅ‘Šใ’ใพใ—ใŸใฏใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใ‹๏ผŸใคใพใ‚Šใ€ใ‚นใƒฌๆฌก็ฌฌใ€‚ๆŸ็ธ›้ŽใŽใพใ™ใชใ‚‰ใ€ๅ‚ๅŠ ่€…ใฏๅฐ‘ใชใ„ใงใ™ใ€‚

ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’ใ—ใŸใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€้•ทใ•ใฎๅ•้กŒใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใใฆใ€้›ฃใ—ใ•ใฎใงใ™ใ€‚ๆผซ็”ป่จ€่ชžใจ่ฉฑ่จ€่ชžใฏใกใ‚‡ใฃใจ้•ใ„ใพใ™ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€‚

ใ„ใ‚„ใ€ใ“ใ‚Œใ‚‚ใ‚ใ‚‹ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ“ใใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใŒใ„ใ„ใ‹ใชใจๆ€ใฃใŸ :sweat_smile::joy:
้ขๅ€’่‡ญใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ๆฑบใ‚ใ‚‹ใพใงๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’ใ‚„ใ‚ใ‚‹็ฌ‘
ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใฎ่ฒ ๆ‹…ใ‚‚ๅข—ใˆใ‚‹ใ‚“ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใ‹ใฃใฆใ‚‚ๆ€ใ†ใ—ใ€ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’็‰นใซไฝฟใ„ใŸใ„ใจใ‹ไฝฟใฃใŸๆ–นใŒใ„ใ„ใจใ‹ๆ€ใ†ไบบใ„ใ‚‹๏ผŸ

ใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใ‚’ๅข—ใ‚„ใ™ใ‚ˆใ‚Šใ€ๆŠ•็จฟใฎๆœ€ๅˆใ‹ใฉใ“ใ‹ใซใ€Œ่จ‚ๆญฃ่ฆๆฑ‚ใ€ใ‚„ใ€Œ่จ‚ๆญฃไธ่ฆใ€ใ‚’ๆ›ธใ‘ใฐใ„ใ„ใ‹ใช๏ผŸ

ใใ†ใงใ™ใญใ€ใ‚ฌใ‚คใƒ‰ใƒฉใ‚คใƒณใŒๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใšใ‚‰ใ„ใชใ‚‰ใ€ๅ‚ๅŠ ่€…ใฏๅฐ‘ใชใใชใ‚‹ใจ่ณ›ๆˆใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚

็š†ใ•ใ‚“ใฏใใ†ๆ€ใ†ใ‘ใฉใ€ๆœฌไบบใซไปปใ›ใฆใฐใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ใจใ‚Šใ‚ใˆใšใ€ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‹ใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใฃใฆใ‚‚ๆง‹ใ‚ใชใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใ‚ขใƒณใ‚ฑใƒผใƒˆใ‚’ไฝœใ‚Šใพใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ‹๏ผŸ :wink:

ใ„ใ„ใงใ™ใญใ€‚็งใ‚‚ใใ†ใ„ใ†ใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใŒใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ—ใŸใ€‚ๅชใญใ€ๅ‚ๅŠ ่€…ใฏไป–ไบบใฎใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใ‚’็Ÿฅใ‚ŠใŸใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ไป–ใฎใ‚นใƒฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚“ใงใ€่ฟ”ไบ‹ใ™ใ‚‹ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ€‚ใ‚‚ใ—ใ€ใŸใใ•ใ‚“่ฟ”ไบ‹ใฏ่จ‚ๆญฃใซๅฏพใ—ใฆใ‚นใƒฌ*ใฐใ‹ใ‚Šใ€ใŸใ ใฎ่ฉฑใ—ๅˆใ„ใฎ่ฟ”ไบ‹ใฏ่ฆ‹ใคใ‹ใ‚Šใซใใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚Houndstoothใ•ใ‚“ใจใ‹ใฏใƒฌใƒ™ใƒซ้ซ˜ใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๅ•้กŒใชใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ‘ใฉใ€ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใซๅฏพใ—ใฆใฏๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใšใ‚‰ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ๅคšๅˆ†ใ€็งใŸใกใฎไผš่ฉฑใ‚’่ฆ‹ใ‚‹ใ ใ‘ใฏใจใฆใ‚‚ไธๅฎ‰ใซใชใฃใŸไบบใฏใ„ใพใ™ใญใ€‚

็งใฎไฝ“้จ“ใฏๅฐ‘ใชใ„ใ‘ใฉใ€ไปŠใพใงใฎๅ‚ๅŠ ใ—ใฆใ„ใ‚‹ใƒ–ใƒƒใ‚ฏใ‚ฏใƒฉใƒƒใƒ–ใฏใปใจใ‚“ใฉใ€ๆ–‡ๆณ•ใฎ่ณชๅ•ใฏๅคšใ„ใฎใงใ€ใŸใพใซๆฅฝใ—ใ„่ฉฑใซใชใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ :sweat_smile: ใงใ‚‚ใ€่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ‚’ไผใˆใ‚‹ใ“ใจใฏ็›ฎ็š„ใซใชใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจๆฅฝใ—ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ๅคงไบ‹ใชใฎใฏๅฟƒ้…ใ›ใšใซใ€ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใฎๆ–‡็ซ ใ‚’ไฝœใ‚Šใพใ—ใ‚‡ใ†๏ผใ‚‚ใฃใจๆ›ธใ„ใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ‚‚ใฃใจใ„ใ„็ทด็ฟ’ใซใชใ‚‹ใ‘ใฉใ€่‡ชๅˆ†ใฎๅˆ†ใ‹ใฃใŸๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใฏใพใ ใใฎใƒฌใƒ™ใƒซใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใชใ‚‰ใ€ๅฐ‘ใชใใฆใ‚‚ใ€ใฉใ“ใŒ้–“้•ใˆใฃใŸใจ็Ÿฅใ‚ŠใŸใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใญใ€‚

ๅˆฅใซๆฑบใ‚ใชใใฆใ€ไฝฟใ„ใŸใ„ไบบใŒไฝฟใฃใŸใ‚‰ไฝฟใ„ใŸใใชใ„ไบบใฏไฝฟใ‚ใชใ‹ใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใ„ใ‘ใชใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ‹ใ€‚

ๆ•ฌ่ชžใฏ้•ทใ่ฆ‹ใˆใ‚‹ใ‘ใฉใ€ๆœ€ๅˆๆ•ฌ่ชž๏ผˆ็งใฎ่จ€ใ†ๆ•ฌ่ชžใฏV-ใพใ™ใจใ„ใ†ๆ„ๅ‘ณใชใ‚“ใงใ™ใ‘ใฉ๏ผ‰ใ‚’็ฟ’ใ†ไบบๅคšใ„ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใงใ™ใ‹ใ€‚ใใ—ใŸใ‚‰ๆœ€ๅˆใฏใใฎๆ–นใฏๆฅฝใ‹ใ‚‚ใ—ใ‚Œใชใ„ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใ‚‚ใ„ใ‚‹ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใงใ™ใ‹ใ€‚

ๅˆฅใซ็กฌใ„ใƒซใƒผใƒซใŒใชใใฆใ‚‚ใ€ใ‚ใ‹ใ‚Œใฐๅคงไธˆๅคซใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใ€‚ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใซๅ‚ๅŠ ใ—ใ‚„ใ™ใ„ใŸใ‚ใซใ‚‚ใ€‚

ใใ†ใงใ™ใญใ€‚็งใ‚‚ใใ†ๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚:slight_smile:

ใ„ใ„ใญ๏ผใ„ใคใ‚‚ๆ›ธใ็ทด็ฟ’ใŒใ‚‚ใฃใจใ—ใŸใ„ใจใฏๆ€ใฃใŸใ‘ใฉใ€ๅฎŸ้š›ใใ‚Œใ‚’ใ—ใŸใ‚‰ใ€ใชใซใ‚’ๆ›ธใ‘ใฐใ„ใ„ใ‹ใชใฃใฆ่จ€่‘‰ใซ่ฉฐใพใฃใฆใ‚‹ใ€‚ใฟใ‚“ใชใจไธ€็ท’ใซๅŒใ˜ๆœฌใ‚’่ชญใ‚“ใ ใ‚‰ใ€ๆ„ŸๆƒณใŒใŸใใ•ใ‚“ไบคใ‚ใ›ใ‚‹ใ‹ใ‚‰ใใฎๅ•้กŒใŒใชใใชใฃใฆใ€ๆœฌใงๅ‹‰ๅผทใ—ใŸ่จ€่‘‰ใ‚‚้€Ÿใไฝฟใˆใ‚‹ใ€‚ใใ—ใฆๆฅฝใ—ใ„็ทด็ฟ’ใซใชใ‚Šใใ†ใ€‚ๆฅฝใ—ใฟใซใ—ใฆใ‚‹๏ผ :smile:

ๆฐ—ใซใชใ‚‹ใฎใฏใ€ใฟใ‚“ใชใฎใƒฌใƒ™ใƒซใŒ้•ใ†ใ‹ใ‚‰ๆผขๅญ—ใซใตใ‚ŠใŒใชใ‚’ไป˜ใ‘ใ‚‹ใปใ†ใŒใ„ใ„ใ‹ใฉใ†ใ‹ใ€‚

ใ‚ใ‚ใ€ใใ†ใงใ™ใญใ€‚็งใ‚‚ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใ ใฃใŸๆ™‚้•ทใ„ๆ–‡็ซ ใ‚’่ฆ‹ใŸใ‚‰ใ€่„ณใŒๅ‹ๆ‰‹ใซใ€่ชญใ‚ใ‚‹ใ‚ใ‘ใชใ„ใงใ—ใ‚‡ใ†ใฃใฆๆ€ใ„ใพใ—ใŸใ€‚ๅฎŸ้š›ใซๅŠชๅŠ›ใ—ใฆ่ชญใ‚“ใงใฟใŸใ‚‰ใŸใถใ‚“ใงใใฆใŸใฎใซใ€‚ใƒใƒผใƒ‰ใƒซใŒไฝŽใ„ใปใ†ใŒใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใ†ใ‚“ใ€ใใ†ใงใ™ใญโ€ฆๆ„Ÿๆƒณใฎใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใจๆ–‡ๆณ•ใฎใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใซๅˆ†ใ‘ใŸใ‚‰ใ€่จ‚ๆญฃใ•ใ‚ŒใŸใ„ไบบใฎๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ‚’ๆ–‡ๆณ•ใ‚นใƒฌใƒƒใƒ‰ใงใ‚ฏใ‚ชใƒผใƒˆใ—ใฆใ€ใใ“ใง่จ‚ๆญฃใ‚’ใ—ใŸใ‚‰ใ„ใ„ใ‹ใช๏ผŸ

ใฟใชใ•ใ‚“ใฎๅๅฟœใฏใ‚ใ‚ŠใŒใŸใ„ใงใ™ใ‚๏ผ

(Scroll down for English!)

ใฟใ‚“ใชใ•ใ‚“ใพใ ใŠไบ’ใ„ใ‚’็Ÿฅใ‚Œใชใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€ๆ•ฌ่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใ„ใพใ—ใŸใ€‚่ชญๆ›ธไผšใ‚’ไฝœใ‚‹ใจใ‚ฟใƒก่ชžใ‚’ไฝฟใˆใฐใ„ใ„ใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ‘ใฉใ€‚

ใใ†ใ€ใŸใพใซใฏ็งใ‚‚ใใ†ใ„ใ†ๆ„Ÿใ˜ใŒใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚

ใใ†ใงใ™ใญ๏ผใ„ใ„ใ‚ขใ‚คใƒ‡ใ‚ขใงใ™ใ‚ˆใ€‚ใ‚นใƒฌใฏ้ฃ›ใฐใ—้ŽใŽใŸใ‚‰ใ€ๅˆๅฟƒ่€…ใฏใใ‚Œใงใ‚‚ๆ„Ÿๆƒณใ‚’ๆ›ธใใฎใฏใงใใพใ™ใ€‚ใใ†ใ„ใ†้ขจใซๅ‚ๅŠ ใ™ใ‚‹ใฎใฏใงใใพใ™ใ€‚

่ณ›ๆˆใงใ™๏ผ

To summarize in English, we have a few questions and ideas!

  • Will using casual language rather than sonkeigo make it easier for beginners to keep up with the conversation and be able to participate?
  • Several of us think that it would work best to have one thread for discussing the book, and a separate thread where folks can request feedback/grammar corrections on their own writing. That way it will not derail the discussion, but we can still do language help for each other if someone is really struggling with how to express something, or concerned that they are continuously making the same mistakes, etc.
  • @Hantsuki had the idea that during the discussion people could write up their ๆ„Ÿๆƒณ (thoughts/impression) on the reading even if the thread is moving too fast for them to keep up with. That way people at all levels will be able to participate!
  • Someone (sorry, canโ€™t remember who!) suggested using furigana to make things easier for beginners. I think the only problem with this is it adds a lot of work to writing. But this could still be worth exploring!
  • @Hantsuki also suggested a book club vocabulary guide, which I think could be a great way to make it easier for folks to jump in to the discussion.

All those who answered the first poll โ€œI am interested but have some reservations โ€ฆโ€, please let us know your thoughts! Japanese or English are both fine to use!

And one more poll for good measure.

Which do you find easier to understand?
  • Casual language
  • Formal language
0 voters

Just gonna respond in English because miscommunications are less likely to happen and itโ€™s still a lot easier :sweat_smile:

For casual vs. formal language, itโ€™s all the same to me personally, but from a writing practice perspective Iโ€™d prefer either to be fine, honestly - I lack some practice varying casual-ness anyway, as well as staying consistent in my messages, so being able to vary it a bit (possibly depending on who Iโ€™m talking to) could make for good practice.

With that in mind, I have no idea which option to vote for in the poll :smile:

Thereโ€™s a great plugin that makes adding furigana no effort at all:

Itโ€™s entirely automatic.

Iโ€™ll also do English for ease and quickness.

I also donโ€™t know what to answer because I understand both fine, unless we are talking native level casual language which does take a bit more work. :joy: (Same could be said for high keigo too, though.)

However, most beginners learn formal/polite language first, so from that perspective, if we were going to go with one or the other, polite language might be better. Personally, I donโ€™t see a reason to limit that though.


This amazing script does not work for Safari. Believe me, we just spent several hours today trying to get it to work for me, and we couldnโ€™t get there. D:

So for me and every other Safari user out there, writing furigana is not automaticโ€ฆ :sob:

I was going to say the same thing here. No strong preference, other than I think people should use what they feel they need to practice with.

Though my understanding with this plug-in is that you do often have to double-check what it adds for accuracy, no?

My opinion on the furigana is kinda on the fence, honestly. I see how it could be helpful, but I lean towards suggesting those who need it use Yomi-chan or something similar, instead. This would help them more quickly look up words that they donโ€™t know, as well as showing them furigana for words they need it for, while not adding it for words they may not need (which is better for recognition long-term, instead of building a reliance on furigana).

Maybe throwing a quick guideline on how to install and use Yomi-chan (or similar) in the OP would be a good way to introduce it to those who might not be familiar with it.

Iโ€™m not 100% what yomi-chan can do and maybe it exists for Safari, but I have Safarikai. So this kinda thing definitely exists for Safari.

The way this one works as I understand it (Iโ€™d have to read through the source code to be sure) is that it adds what you wrote in kana as furigana for the resulting kanji, I believe, so youโ€™re in full control of that.

Oh thatโ€™s very unfortunate.

I wonder if Safari is the problem or itโ€™s Appleโ€™s IME or somethingโ€ฆ Iโ€™d offer to check and possibly see if I can get a fix in, but I donโ€™t have an Apple machine to test with :sweat_smile:

Yeah, thatโ€™s a very good alternative. It makes furigana a non-issue, and makes reading potentially unfamiliar vocabulary a million times easier anyway.

I just checked, it does notโ€ฆ Apparently Safari makes devs cry :sweat_smile: But if Safarikai is a good alternative, that works just as well.