Japanese-Japanese Book Club Enquiry

Safari browser related furigana and safarikai/yomi-chan reply

I contacted the script writer through their thread here on the forums, our convo (with @polv involved too) starts here: [Userscript] Forum: IME2Furigana - #90 by MissDagger

I know. :sob: I think Yomi-chan can do more things, but with safarikai I can hover over words and I get furigana and translations (in English). So hopefully the most important functionality.

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Yeah, I think that’s the most important functionality for this case. The Anki integration and all the bells and whistles (audio for some entries, easy access to stroke order, etc, etc) that Yomi-chan offers can be useful, but none of it is strictly necessary for solving the question of whether or not to impose a furigana requirement.

Of course, if we choose the browser extension dictionary option over requiring furigana, we would need to add another section on how to install Safarikai specifically, but I don’t think that adds too heavy a burden.

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I am not sure if I can communicate (outward), more than even reading (inward). Not only misunderstanding, but restriction of communication at all, is bound to happen.

Still, personally, I am willing to try and adapt accordingly. Like, try to reduce restrictions; and try to understand misunderstandings, and read between the lines.

Syntax-wise, you can always use <ruby>漢字<rt>かんじ</rt></ruby>, although it is not exactly a clean syntax

About auto-inserter, I tried creating a Furigana inserter in the past, on my website (HTML mode+copy paste).

Whether I want to insert Furigana at all depends on the tone of the community, really. I don’t even really know the specific audience for a book, that also tries to communicate in Japanese.

I am not exactly sure myself, but I really want to copy Japanese people’s internet communities.

Though, I am not really against it either, if people wants to go more formal.

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I wouldn’t mind writing that up. Pretty sure I even remember how to do it using the previous method that was changed a couple of safari/MacOS versions ago.

If I had to write furigana manually for all/most kanji words I used when trying to discuss books, I think I’d either bow out or I wouldn’t write nearly as much. Because adding it manually is a lot of work. And it would add a lot of time to each of my messages. And every other Safari user would be in this boat.

I don’t think making furigana a rule would be a good thing, because it would unevenly burden those with Safari and those who don’t use scripts.

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アイデアはいいです!”I have reservations”を選んだ理由は今読んでいる本は多すぎて時間が足りないので参加できるかどうか分からない。

English version - I don’t have reservations with the idea itself, I’m just pretty hectic right now so unsure about whether I’ll be able to participate. :crossed_fingers:

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They also cause a lot of clutter in text. It should be easy enough to look up unknowns by copy pasting the relevant parts into a dictionary of choice.

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I wanna give this book club a try, but I also might fall behind, since I’m already starting a book club this month. Production would be great for me to practice, though, again, it’s a matter of how much time I have (or perhaps more importantly, energy). I’m just gonna give it a strong try and see how it goes once we’ve decided on what to read. ^>^

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When talking about Japanese formal language, it gets tricky because there’s essentially 3 kinds.

Teineigo 丁寧語 polite form
Sonkeigo 尊敬語 honorific form
Kenjougo 謙譲語 respectful form

Keigo explanation here

This article explains the differences very well, but essentially teineigo is what we all learn when initially studying Japanese - using -ます form and -です. I think this would be the appropriate default form to use as it’s just general politeness to everyone.

Sonkeigo is a step above and uses different verb conjugations entirely to treat the other person with respect. Student/teacher, worker/boss, waiter/customer - in all these relationships the former will adjust their speech to treat the latter more respectfully.

Considering we’re all equal here, it would be weird to use though it wouldn’t be absolutely inappropriate for the moderator of a thread to use if they want to be extra respectful. The downside is it also creates distance in relationships.

Kenjougo is similar to sonkeigo in that verb conjugations are completely different, but focuses on adjusting the language to make yourself sound more humble. It tends to be used in conjunction with sonkeigo, but I feel it would be entirely inappropriate here. Not to mention (according to the polls) very few of us can use it or understand it.

It tends to be used to create good first impressions when introducing yourself at work, or if you’re a customer, a service provider will use it on themselves to make you feel "special. "

Long story short, if you want to go the formal route, polite form makes sense. And if we go by the assumption that most of us learned Japanese from a textbook and not through casual conversations with friends, it should be easier for most of us to understand.

If your personal goal is to practice using an aspect of Japanese you don’t get to practice anywhere else (ie casual, short form), then I still think book discussion posts can be whatever makes you happy.

The thing with casual language is, there’s also a wide net in terms with how casual you want to be. My first post for example was written with the intention of making it more “textbook learned” appropriate vs more chat speak (for example, 思っている being shortened to 思ってる) . If you choose to go more chat speak, it might be hard for others to understand such as cutting out particles and subject, etc.

Again, whatever helps you with your study can be your go to, but if you’re participating with the intention that you hope someone will read your ideas and respond to them, then maybe you should adjust your language to make it easier for others. Just something to keep in mind.

I also meant to add an end note to my last post, but one of the words I struggled to find a word for is “forum post” since it can be used interchangeably with “thread” in Japanese.

I decided to use スレッド to refer to “thread” and スレ for “post” (ポスト refers to mail so it felt weird to use). This might be something that might need clarifying and be added to the guide for future reference.

Edit: If there’s only one style you know how to write and all this talk about Keigo is above your current level of understanding, then don’t worry about it. Just write what you can because any sort of production is better than nothing at all.

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I always just use 投稿. That’s what’s generally used on social media and blogs, so I figured that would apply as well here. I kinda thought スレ was the same thing as スレッド, just shortened. (Edit: Not that I’m trying to correct you or anything, just offering another potential option because you specified you struggled to pick a word.)

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It sounds like formality-wise the best thing to do is allow everyone to choose what they are comfortable with/what feels right, knowing that no one will view informal language as being inappropriate.

For furigana, sounds like we can skip it to make writing easier, and also because there are browser extensions that people can use to apply however much furigana they need, and if not browser extensions there’s always good old copy-pasting.

But the most important thing, I think, is for everyone to keep in mind that we are all learners and try to go easy on things like obscure kanji or highly literary grammar constructions (just as an example).

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New poll!

Which way of handling grammar corrections seems the most intuitive and/or the least intrusive?
  • In a dedicated grammar correction thread, participants quote any post (of their own) on which they would like to receive corrections
  • Participants post a link to the grammar corrections thread at the bottom of any post on which they would like to receive corrections
  • In the book club OP or 1st comment, participants who would like to receive corrections are listed
  • In the grammar corrections OP or 1st comment, participants who would like to receive corrections are listed
  • A combination (please specify in the comments)
  • Something else (please comment with your idea)

0 voters

Welcome to ideas as always!

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修正してもらいたいユーザーのリストを使えば、誰かを修正する度にそのリストを確認しなくてはならないから面倒くさそう。。

そしてこの掲示板でクオートするのがなんか(個人的に)難しくて

だから「修正してもらいたいユーザーが修正してもらいたいポストに修正スレへのリンクを入れる」というのが一番いいシステムだと思う

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I think requests for grammar corrections and follow-ups to said requests could be handled well enough with the “hide details” function

Like this - "Requesting help with grammar"

Just ask whatever here, and some helpful soul could include their reply in another “hide details” section without it derailing the thread and without the need for participants jumping between two threads.

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