Insanity Training (Vocabulary) Learning consolidation method

Eek, the lack of self-awareness is strong with this one.

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It’s a troll thread. I didn’t realize it at first. I actually thought this person was actually trying to share something and I was trying to understand it. Shame on me for taking the bait.

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“This seems backwards to me.” - passive insult

“but I have found greener pastures” - self aggrandizing

“I suppose it would help if you clearly explained the purported benefits of this method. You’ve only given a rough outline of what it is and how to do it,” - did explain exactly how to do it

“personal notes, peer-reviewed data, comparisons with other methods, empirical date, or basically anything.” - really…

Why would you come into a thread to comment on a learning methods you historically do not like. About reviewing burned items from wanikani of which you have none. And taking what was child like excitement at finding something interesting to try with new technology and berating it.

What the hell man.

I mean, if it works for you, then do it, and we’re happy for you. I don’t think you broke the internet or revolutionized language learning, but we’re always excited when people find a method that is individually useful for them, at least until the moment they discover or realize even better methods, which invariably occurs multiple times throughout the process.

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tbh, I don’t know a good way to break into actual listening (other than surviving classes, textbooks and exercises), but I particularly don’t like TTS, especially at sentence level.

I have been traumatized by hearing Wanikani context sentences read-aloud by computer. (No damage done though, just heard too many mistakes.)

Though, Prosody Suzuki-kun / OJAD is a particularly special case. It isn’t so bad, and also with visual aid.

Picking a word from context is a particularly big question. Perhaps reading, listening with sub, then listening well, can help.

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For sentences I use a combination of Anki, the add on language reactor, and netflix. I add sentences from various shows and go that way (this methods costs but I’m lazy). Listening I get from re-watching those shows, and conversations here in Japan. Listening is just pure exposure and pretty fun. Find a thing you like and listen, the satori app is also pretty good as it has a listening component.

My experience has been that as my words and grammar has improved I’ve been better able to comprehend. Any sentence will have grammar and words. Getting used to the active use of verbs conjugation is defiantly hard as all hell.

The word doc method is helping me to find vocab that I can’t instantly discern. I’m closing my eyes and it is alarming how few words I can discern, that I instantly know from looking at the kanji.

I would bet there are a bunch of methods with learning, I know you can make anki listening decks with the audio at the front.

I think if you feel this method helps you then for sure you it, but I personally wouldn’t use. Text to speech would probably not be the best listening exercise.

I feel listening exercises from native speakers like on YouTube and podcasts are really great. I know Tofugu has an article with a list for beginner and intermediate podcasts. I personally enjoy listening to shoujo manga on YouTube and reading along side as I listen.

This one isn’t a learning exercise, but if I find a manga that interests me on bookwalker I practice reading just to see what I can understand from it.

I feel like listening to 1000+ in 5 minutes wouldn’t be effective as it’s just words in isolation and would not enter into long term memory. I feel context is key is learning which is why I like that WaniKani has context sentences. I particularly get excited when I see a word I had just learned on social media, manga, etc. Really helps solidify the word even more in my mind.

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I’m confused on what you mean by words are never in context as WaniKani always has example context sentences for the vocabulary. In addition if the method is to simply review words then couldn’t someone just do that by reviewing the burned items in the Extra Study section?

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This is not listening, it is a vocab review method specifically to target burned words. At level 7 you will not have many burned words.

Burned words are specifically problematic in that they exit the SRS system. This method has already helped me to identify that I need specific and focused listening practice with a bunch of words I thought I mastered. Dealing with 4000+ burned items is problematic in that you gain exposure to them unevenly.

Using this method you can quickly identify and revise words that are problematic for you that you have burned. Burning an item is not the end.

Did you try the method before commenting? At least watch the video at the bottom, TTS is getting better every day. The “read aloud” function in English now has better enunciation than me, and I give presentations regularly. The Japanese is lagging but still pretty good.

To all who view this thread: DO NOT USE THIS METHOD FOR GENERAL LISTENING PRACTICE.

This method pulls you through every single burned item in less than half a day. You can close your eyes and review listening comprehension of the words.

Extra studying 3000 burned items would take about a week, you need to type. Just going through WKstats manually is great but I find myself procrastinating after the 200th review.

I’ll see how I go with it over the next couple weeks and report back. Do note, I am using a lot of other methods: reading manga, talking to people, bunpro. But this seems like a nice (fast!) way review burned items.

Good that this method helped you to figure that out, but isn’t WK as a service only meant to make you proficiently literate in Japanese? Burning words means you should be able to recognise them in a written context. Listening comprehension is an entirely different skill set which WK as the service it is wouldn’t be able to cover, so I’m not entirely sure what this method is supposed to do.

Imo if you burn a word and you are able to know what it means in a written text, that word is done with and doesn’t need to be revised anymore. If you can’t recognise it while listening to something or someone, that’s not the fault of the burned word leaving the SRS, but rather that you just need more practice at listening and more patience of letting your brain process what you hear and connect that to your memory

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Isn’t this just like those videos that have a bunch of vocab, but they also have the meanings?

I guess in this case it’s tailored to the words you should know.

With all the scripts around, I’m sure this already exists. And the audio in Wanikani is by native speakers.

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Nah, I was referring to the OP. I’ve always gotten the sense that you know what you’re doing!

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You say it’s not for listening practice, but in the next paragraph say it is?

If you’re saying it’s solely a review vocabulary practice I feel like WaniKani covers this. Not being able to review burned items through WaniKani was an old issue, but has been somewhat fixed though the Extra Study section as you can now go through burn items. Myself and a few others have already left feedback to WaniKani on how reviewing the burned items can be optimized further in the Extra Study section.

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With all the scripts around, I’m sure this already exists. And the audio in Wanikani is by native speakers.

And Jisho has audio provided by Wanikani and it seems there is an unofficial API* to get it.

  • Permission to scrape granted by Jisho’s admin Kimtaro:
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And here in the first paragraph you are saying review listening comprehension of the words, but in the post right above this saying not to use for general listening practice. This sounds kind of confusing/clear.

I feel for the burned items the typing is good and after you type you can listen to the sound of the word before moving to the next. Sure it takes more time, but I feel both are important. The sounds are also from native speakers and not robotic.

Yeah I am confused by their method as they keep going back and forth between saying what they do is listening comprehension, but then tell people not to use it as listening practice?

I agree with patience being the key in letting the words sink in. Also if all they wanted was to just listen the words and not type they could just click on Levels and look at what is black then click on those to listen, though I feel if a word is burned they should be able to recognize the word when they hear it like you mentioned.

Hey Everyone!

We’ve received a fair number of flags on this thread so I just want to iterate for everyone involved Goal 2 of our Community Guidelines, particularly the first bullet point:

Goal 2 - Maintaining Healthy Discussions

Work together to cultivate an environment where people can discuss various topics in good faith, and be open to different perspectives.

  • Be mindful and sensitive to the fact that people here come from various backgrounds and will have different approaches and perspectives, from learning Japanese to how they live their daily lives. Do not assume the worst of people who may not have the same privileges and/or access to resources you have, or share your perspective.
  • Respect other peoples’ time and interests, and have conversations in good faith. Don’t ask rhetorical questions that will start heated discussions or arguments. Consider whether a discussion would benefit from your input, or whether you would be better off listening.
  • Work to de-escalate. If a conversation is becoming heated, avoid adding to that fire. Know when to step back, take a breath and consider what you are writing. Don’t feel like you have to have the last word or keep posting. If you want to drop out of a conversation that you feel isn’t constructive anymore, say so. If someone else tells you they want to step back from a conversation, respect that decision and drop it as well. If a moderator asks you to move on or drop a conversation, do so.

That being said, I feel that overall the conversation has been civil, I just want to make sure it stays that way! :sunglasses:

Carry on fellow Japanese language enthusiasts!

-Nick at WK

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I’ll second the FORVO content, and I have Kitsun deck of common phrase made for STT for shadow/pronunciation/comprension if you want speech input for anyone interested.

I’ll use AI generated sentences for comprehension but not for shadowing. They are definitely comprehensible and sound better than ever but they definitely do miss. If you go through the native samples of FORVO, there is a generous variety of intonations even on the same phrase; something that a pitch accent graph can’t really capture at all…I suppose a graph is better than nothing but my opinion is the pitch accent can’t be ‘studied’ anymore than singing can be ‘studied’ other than ear training and performance based practice, preferably with a feedback loop of some kind, a native person being best. The STT is was a concept to have some kind of feedback/threshold of the shadowing experience without a human loop that can be done independently.

Some platforms put together a rich list of recorded native audio which is great but no context of actual listening comprehension practice or testing methods other than a supplementary entry to the sample. I suppose the Jisho API release makes it possible since they donated the audio I haven’t see anything built (?)…would one just listen to single words as pass or fail? …I’m not sure how much mileage one could get from single words audio, but maybe better than nothing though for extra practice. But the AI generate audio I’n SRS’n has been extremely helpful, and more so in a sentence context for grammar practice comprehension but again, I would not shadow it. Media is still better than native samples, at least a trained actor in context of the sentence conveys the content as it should for the situation at hand. I never shadowed media though, don’t know if this is a thing, alot is not what I would want to sound like anyways.