Had the same experience with menus, they’re very tough (tons and tons of kanji).
Also, ditto the waitresses with English menus, they would actually argue with me (as much arguing as you would expect in Japan at least) trying to give me an English menu and it was rather annoying.
However, I don’t feel that being able to speak and understand some Japanese helped a ton while I was in Japan. Just basic stuff like “does this bus go ___” (particularly in Hakone, god forbid you go there and try to take buses without knowing any Japanese -.-) and “where is ___” will take you about as far as you can go without being able to understand grammar and language beyond the 6 month level. Keep in mind when you first meet someone, the first few things you say will determine how much advanced language they assume you know and thus use with you.
On the other hand, I had a great time at a maid cafe talking with the waitress there who spoke absolutely 0 English (in Tokyo too, still don’t know how that happened…). She used simple sentences and I responded simply with the occasional Google Translate and it was excellent speaking and listening practice.
And make lots of mistakes! I learned the hard way that shitsurei shimasu when spoken with very low volume and an American accent sounds a lot like shine… I still feel bad about those people I said it to from behind >.>
Do WaniKani consistently, read a bunch of grammar books (at least up to N3 level), watch slice-of-life anime without subtitles, talk to people on Hello Talk, play Japanese video-games, etc.
Speaking of which, I randomly approached a Japanese person at the airport the other day. After confirming he was actually Japanese (i didn’t ask directly), I started conversing with him in the language. Felt like all my efforts finally paid off
I use HelloTalk every day to chat with natives and it has been good practice. Eventually I’d like to voice chat with them, but my vocabularly is so small that I usually have to look up words they are using (for vocab purposes, not grammar). So, I don’t really want to voice chat and keep going えっと、分かりません。笑
I found JapanesePod101’s Absolute Beginner (not Newbie, but the actual Absolute Beginner season 1 and 2 inside the Absolute Beginner category) to be amazing for practical speech that I could have used when I was in Japan. Actually I kind of regret not listening to those before I went. Oh well.
Anyway, they have actual pauses where they have you repeat phrases after them, which I found to be really cool because I’m kind of lazy about shadowing (where you try to speak at the same time as the speaker).
Actually, you could probably cram all of the Jpod101 if you really want to get a lot of listening practice. There is a recommended path here: Redirecting... although I would highly recommend starting with Absolute Beginner season 1 and 2 before the Newbie seasons, because they are just really good!
I was fearing the same thing, but in practice it was less of a hurdle than I initially thought. There were parts I didn’t get at all, and there were a bit if すみません、分かりませんでした going on, but overall we were able to carry on the conversation well enough using simple words.
So I’d say give it a go rather than putting it off
Did you speak with someone who was able to explain what you didn’t understand in English or did you look up the words live when you weren’t able to understand?
I’ll definitely try to work up the courage to try a voice chat sooner than later though! I’m enjoying my text conversations with them, so it’d be nice to take it to the next level
I don’t really like jpod101 too much (although I’ve only gone through the beginner series) but can’t you just download all of the lessons via a free trial instead of spending $100+?
I did just that on my phone - 7 day free trial then just downloading new episodes before they get wiped
I started learning Japanese in February starting with zero knowledge (other than subbed anime - even which I didnt take anything in) and I can now have conversations with native speakers both verbally and by typing. Speaking is still slow for me and sometimes I have to ask for words to be repeated but it is improving. My advice is:
Learn basic sentence structures and the correct grammar to use in between - SOV (I suggest picking up a decent grammar book and there are plenty of threads comparing these on here - I use Genki)
Vocabulary!!! - You need way more vocab that what is on Wanikani to start speaking so start looking up words you are interested in and make a note of them. It helps to know sentence structure here because once you become comfortable with the way sentences are laid out you can start to incorporate the vocab you have learnt by replacing verbs and nouns etc
Learn how to express ideas you dont yet know in japanese
e.g. 反対語 (hantaigoha) - means ‘the opposite term’ → 右の反対語は (the opposite of “right” is…?"). My other favourite is みたいな (mitaina) - means ‘something like’ eg. 本 みたいな (something like a book)
Dont be afraid to let others correct you - if someone is willing to correct you then learn from it (it is very easy for people to get embarresed and decide to stop speaking or to find another person to speak to instead but you can’t learn if people don’t correct you)
I didn’t look things up, and she couldn’t really explain things in english, but a few times she told me the english translation of a word I didn’t know or write the word in kanji in the chat.
Like I said, there were times (especially once when she tried to tell me what the plot of a book was) that I didn’t understand at all, but mostly speaking slowly and with simple words was enough to at least get the gist across.
After doing a little of HelloTalk, I feel like vocab isn’t that much of an issue. (I just need learn of a way to evade it.) Rather, what matters is accurately producing grammar in the way that matters.
Production and recognition are different tasks, and not all aspects of grammar seem to be equally matter.
It also sometimes uses Advanced Topics of Tae Kim, too; or maybe it is just my choice?
Maybe I should try Jpod101, because of economic issues…
Thinking again, conversational level isn’t that difficult, but being fluent is next to impossible (although, not). Think how many foreigners actually get fluent in my homeland. Or grammatically correct?
I’m confused as to what you’re trying to get it? it sometimes uses advanced topics of Tae Kim? Do you mean the native speakers? That shouldn’t really be a surprise, shouldn’t expect natives to speak at an elementary level always.
I’d argue that up to a certain point that vocab is more important than grammar. With okay grammar you can make yourself understood, but if you don’t know the words to express yourself it doesn’t really help.
Regarding fluency, tons of people learn English as a second language (many people here have) and at a good enough level to be mistaken as a native. Getting to fluency will be hard, but I wouldn’t describe it as near impossible. Dependjng on your Japanese goals, your idea of fluency might be different from someone else though.
Set your small goals and achieve them.
It refers to me, as how to express ideas. Production needs a set of skills.
Yes.
Anyway, I am back to focusing on listening and reading chats; also, learning grammar properly; rather than randomly producing something bad. I will also consider relearning phonics.
Preparation for years might be better than making one big mistake on the stage, spanning only a few seconds.
