Help with 出じょうしています

[vol2]

Hi, I’m trying to figure out what words are at the end of this sentence used in WaniKani example:

このマラソン大会には、毎回出じょうしています

I can see the translation, so can assume that de jyoushi te imasu means to enter, but when I look up the phrase on google, I have trouble finding more information about it.

Can someone explain “出じょうしています。” please? Is there a kanji form of jyoushi that is used here?

Thanks,

[Vanilla]

It’s just 出場しています

[vol2]

Ok. Thanks. I sort of found that one on ichi.moe eventually, but I still wasn’t sure because it says that 出 is pronounced しゅつ。How am I supposed to know that it becomes “de?” Is there a special reason that pair is pronounced that way in the context of the sentence?

The word 出場 doesn’t seem to exist on WaniKani. Thanks again.

[MrGeneric]

@vol2

The word 出場 doesn’t seem to exist on WaniKani

Yeah, WaniKani only does some vocabulary, so you’re going to come across far more vocabulary that isn’t in the program than vocabulary that is.

[vol2]

Could you explain why it’s pronounced “de” here instead of “しゅつ?”

出じょう - Jisho.org

[natarin]

So WaniKani tends to not use kanji you haven’t learned yet in the example sentences (at least some of them), but they will absolutely use words you don’t know, and will include any kanji that you do know. So it’s not some different word でじょう, it is still 出場(しゅつじょう), they just only partially wrote it in kanji since you’ve only learned the first one. You’ll run into that sort of thing in the wild sometimes too (common examples that come to mind are like 友(とも)だち and 子(こ)ども), where it can be written entirely in kanji but sometimes it will only partially be. That’s not really a common thing with 出場(しゅつじょう) specifically though, in this case it’s just the result of WaniKani being a learning resource.

[Belthazar]

@vol2

Could you explain why it’s pronounced “de” here instead of “しゅつ?”

It’s not read as で here. It’s しゅつじょう.

[vol2]

Blockquote So it’s not some different word でじょう, it is still 出場しゅつじょう, they just only partially wrote it in kanji since you’ve only learned the first one.

Ok. So the reason I have been confused is that the translators can’t parse the kanji because じょうし is spelled out in hiragana. It’s weird because the translation seems to be correct (Google shows me the meaning correctly), but all the the places I tried to translate show 出 as “で” .

Thanks!

[Leebo]

The し is also not part of しゅつじょう directly, it’s part of して, the て form of する.

[polv]

WaniKani sentences up to level 10 will try to write some parts of a Kanji compound in Kana, in a way that is sometimes uncommon for other materials, that makes it difficult for parsers like ichi.moe as well as speech synthesis (which is usually faulty for JP in general, anyway).

Beyond level 10 context sentences use normal Kanji forms as WaniKani team sees as necessary, or simply in Kana.

There are some words that have Kanji, but commonly written in mixed Kana, anyway, like 石けん.

[Leebo]

@polv

WaniKani sentences up to level 10 will try to write some parts of a Kanji compound in Kana, in a way that is sometimes uncommon for other materials

It should be noted that while this might be uncommon for learner’s materials, it’s extremely common for materials aimed at native students. Sentences like this would not look strange to Japanese people at all.

The main issue is that Japanese people already know the full words, so when they see 出じょう, they know that it has to be しゅつじょう and they recognize why じょう isn’t written in kanji. Learners aren’t going to be able to parse it as well.

But still, I don’t want people to be left with the impression that WK is doing something unprecedented.

[vol2]

@Leebo

The main issue is that Japanese people already know the full words, so when they see 出じょう, they know that it has to be しゅつじょう and they recognize why じょう isn’t written in kanji. Learners aren’t going to be able to parse it as well.

But in those situations, wouldn’t there typically be ruby to show the pronunciation of 出? I’m assuming this is going to be a pretty low-level Japanese course for them to be learning this stuff, and most of the books and stuff I see have ruby for almost all kanji.

[Leebo]

There could be, but there also are situations where there isn’t, because it’s just obvious.

Also if a teacher is writing on the board, they’re going to write 出じょう and not also write furigana, because no one has time for writing all that furigana by hand.

They might write furigana when it’s a specific term the kids are learning and not just an ordinary word they happen to not know the kanji for yet.

[Vanilla]

@vol2

But in those situations, wouldn’t there typically be ruby to show the pronunciation of 出?

fwiw I see stuff like this basically every day at work and haven’t seen it with furigana a single time.

[vol2]

I guess this makes sense for a Japanese kid who’s immersed in the language and has a teacher to point things out.

For me though, I didn’t know the correct pronunciation and it took me a half hour to figure it out.

@Leebo

But still, I don’t want people to be left with the impression that WK is doing something unprecedented.

I don’t understand what point you are trying to make here about precedent? What is the context of the precedent? How does this apply to the learning experience of a English language speaker on WaniKani?

Thanks

[Leebo]

@vol2

I don’t understand what point you are trying to make here about precedent? What is the context of the precedent? How does this apply to the learning experience of a English language speaker on WaniKani?

polv said it’s “uncommon.” This could give the impression WK is doing something no one else does in Japanese. I was pointing out that it’s not generally uncommon. I acknowledged that it’s more difficult for a learner to parse.