Ding, Level 10!

Aha, should have known! I do have a question about this though. I was playing a game called Nioh and was about to start a challenge. The girl in the game said “おはじめる 下さい”. It’s like she made it an Honorific Verb with no Te form. It sounded to me like “Begin. Please.” Is this a thing?

I thought it would be difficult using a phone, I might give it a try though

Perfect, If it really is painful, misery loves company

That would be おはじめください, with no る

You take the ます form, remove the ます, add お, and append ください

おまちください please wait
おたべください please eat

Oh, so it is a polite form. Thanks!

Right, it’s honorific (used when talking to someone of higher status than you)

You can expect to hear it from employees at stores in Japan.

I like how expressing your intent is built into the language. Particles and forms. In English nothing comes across correctly without using a bunch more words to clarify.

Ah, be careful with 君。 When used as an honorific (隆太君, Ryuuta-kun), it will normally be indicating a younger (not necessarily young objectively) male, but when used directly to say “you” or “your” (きみ), it is NOT usually in reference to the sex of the one being called きみ. The tendency towards male is actually in the speaker, meaning that 君の嘘 actually infers that the one stating the title is the main character, a boy. 君 is a (casual, of course) way of saying you that avoids the slightly feminine あなた (the “you” taught in all textbooks). お前 (おまえ) is, on the other hand, is usually only used towards males by males (much more informal though). 君 is the default way that a male would refer to a close female friend since お前 would be really rude to say to a girl (despite you hearing it in anime quite commonly). So in the case of 四月は君の嘘, the title is referring to a lie told by someone to the main character.

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Ah that explains a lot. The guys use お前 a lot in Persona 5. I thought everyone used it though, oops. So when it says
“The Main Characer(boy)'s Lie” but someone else MADE the lie. Is it like the main character’s burden? Where the lie told by someone else is their burden?

Nice mini Japanese lesson.

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Hm, not exactly. It would be “Your Lie” as literally translated to English, but the use of 君 indicates the one saying it is male. To put it into examples using other words for you:

あなたの嘘 would likely be used if the main character were female, since she would likely address the liar using あなた.
君の嘘 was used because the main character is male.
お前の嘘 is pretty weird, but would either mean the liar is a close male friend of the main character or the main character is kind of mad at them for lying.
手前の嘘 would indicate the main character is main and quite pissed off at the liar.

In other words, the sex connotation of 君 (at least in this example) has no implication on the liar themselves. We technically don’t know if the liar is male or female (though it is more likely they are female by use of 君). In practical Japanese, it would be best to use a name, but that doesn’t provide any mystery. :stuck_out_tongue:

お前 and especially 手前 should be avoided in real life use unless you have a Japanese speaker of equal status who uses it to you. The way to think of direct address in Japanese is to always titles of those directly above you with work-related honorifics (like sensei), last name of those equal to or by status above you with -san, last name (or first name if they state preference) with casual honorific to those with whom you’re familiar, and あなた (if you’re a female) or きみ (if you’re a male) to friends when with them specifically and not in a group. If you’re with a group of people, no version of you should really be used unless it’s emphatic (the classic “Why you-!” translated from お前 in anime is an example of this).

Japanese has a very strong sense of personality in its usage of grammar, honorifics, and pronouns. Comparing versions of “you” is the same as comparing versions of “I” in that it reflects upon the speaker more than the the recipient of speech. If the title were 僕の嘘 (ぼく)or 俺の嘘 (おれ), we’d know immediately that the speaker is male (or a possible tomboy in the case of ぼく), meanwhile usage of あたし would indicate a female. The big exception is 私 (わたし・わたくし) which is, in literature, effectively neutral. Using the same logic, the word for “You” only determines the gender of the sex, and any implications of the recipient’s sex can only be made my relation. The grammar point XXの嘘 remains static that someone OTHER than the speaker lied and gives no further implication.

Another example of this usage would be the immensely popular 君の名は (きみのなは), or Your Name. My memory is foggy of the female’s vocal style (especially since she’s from the country rather than the city), but we can more safely assume the speaker and main character is male due to the use of 君, but the person whose name is being inquired is most definitely not male! He is asking for “Her Name” but 君 is used because he is asking the name of someone (a girl, specifically) with whom he had close acquaintance. Had he not had acquaintance with her, a male would likely just ask 名前は何ですか (なまえはなんですか), as it can be assumed he is asking the name of the other person and not for his own! Of course, by Japanese culture is also impolite to ask for someone’s name before stating your own, so, in a conversation between to people, there should never be reason have to use “you” when asking for a name, since one name is already known. :slight_smile:

EDIT: All this being said, I have several female acquaintances who use “kimi” in my circle of friends to everyone, so this is no strict, inflexible rule. In fact, a ton of female characters in media such as anime bust out 君 without hesitation. It’s just seen as less feminine so girls trying to appeal to guys are not likely to use it. Childhood friend types will use 君 on the MC often to imply that they don’t really see them as a potential interest anymore (usually stacking on their tsundere personality type to hide their affection), and “prince” types in yuri will almost ALWAYS use 君 (often alongside 僕 for “I”).

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Wow! Lots of new info. I had heard that わたし is very feminine and that ぼく was very humble with some child like feel to it. Like if you were stating “I am in charge of this operation” you would never start with ぼく

For the most part, that’s accurate. I wouldn’t say that わたし is VERY feminine, though you probably shouldn’t be using it as a guy around people with whom you’re comfortable (since there are other appropriate pronouns in this situation). あたし, on the other hand, is for females only. I personally use 私 when I first meet someone, especially in professional affairs, 僕 with my fellow coworkers or neighbors who are much older (ten or so more years) than me, and 俺 around those of the same age/status or younger than me. I also match them with my speech, too. 私 with formal speech, 僕 with mostly-formal speech, and 俺 with informal speech. Though thankfully, as foreigners, we get a bit more slack when it comes to how we use the language. My boss finds it funny if he hears me saying 俺, but my girlfriend will laugh if I use 僕 around her.

私 is fine whenever, even with people you know, but I agree with not using it a ton simply because you should aim for basically not using personal pronouns unless they are absolutely necessary for comprehension. Even learners who break the habit of saying 私 at the start of every sentence probably say it way more than natives would.

Ah, good clarification. I didn’t mean to say it was bad to use specifically, but rather commonly. As you said, I know I definitely use pronouns more than my native friends, but I notice I use them more commonly around my friends than my coworkers, superiors, and strangers. I had meant that 私 is still fine with people you know, but typically other pronouns are acceptable or more expected there, if used at all. Much too strong wording on my part due to bad word choice. >.<

Are they not almost always necessary for comprehension every time you start a sentence. IE:

I went to the park. There was this guy. I told him his dog was cool. He attacked me. I ran away.

In some cases personal pronouns are of course necessary, but Leebo said to leave them out when possible (not always). Here is an easy example I got from NHK new’s website about learning Japanese Easy Japanese 2015 - Lesson 1 | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPAN
They use following example, two people meet each other for the first time:

はじめまして。私はアンナです。= How do you do? I’m Anna
はじめまして。さくらです。 = How do you do? I’m Sakura.

So in this example the pronoun (私=watashi) is left out by the second person, because it is obvious that Sakura is now introducing herself. English and many other languages would still need the pronoun in this sentence, but in Japanese it is basically left out whenever possible.
It was explained on the website that you quickly sound too arrogant if you use a lot of personal pronouns (please any more experienced people here on Wanikani correct me if I’m mistaken with this or if you have more detailed info).

I couldn’t help but notice you wrote that all in English, not Japanese. You don’t need a single “私”.

公園に行った。男がいた。彼の犬は格好いいと彼に言った。彼に襲われて、逃げ出した。

It’s possible you could do it without 彼 as well, but I wasn’t saying anything about that.

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That is really strange after using English. In a professional email writing class they recommended trying not to start every other sentence with I. I have never figured out how to do it, guess I should start writing my emails in Japanese

How is it clear who ran away. He might have attacked you and ran away, or you could have ran away