Ch 13 Grammar week (Genki 2 and friends grammar club - Week 1)

This is a club where we work through Genki 2 (various editions) together. You don’t have to have Genki 2 to join in the fun, though! Also, join anytime, we’re not racing.

This week’s theme

Chapter 13 is all about finding part-time work. This week we are covering the grammar from Ch 13 and practicing writing using these grammar points.

Start date: 11 April 2022
Next week: Ch 13 Workbook/Listening week (Genki 2 and friends grammar club)
Home thread: Upper beginner grammar club (Genki II/Genki 2 and friends)

Vocabulary

The vocab supports this with words ranging from ゴルフ to やくざ… make of that what you will!

Use the discussion to add in additional words that you think might be useful!

Grammar

If you have Genki, this is where you learn the vocab and read through the grammar in this chapter. Get a start on all those exercises in the front half of the main book, maybe even the workbook if you want to get ahead. Remember to access Genki’s audio for listening and shadowing practice as you do the exercises. These are free for everyone - just download the Japan Times OTO Navi app and search for Genki 2 (2nd or 3rd edition).

Here are descriptions of these grammar points from other sources.

These links make good supplementary reading if you’re following Genki. If you find other good resources, link to them in the discussion! Also, it’s helpful to look up these points in the Dictionary of Beginner Japanese Grammar, if you have it, especially for the discussion around similar grammar points and how to distinguish them.

Potential verbs: explaining what you can do

食べられる I can eat

話せる I can speak

Japanese Potential Form: (ら)れる and ことができる

Giving multiple reasons using し

https://www.wasabi-jpn.com/japanese-grammar/sequential-and-parallel-actions/#5

Expressing that you have made a guess based on how something appears using そう

Appearances and hearsay – Learn Japanese

Say you’ll tentatively try to do something with てみる

https://www.wasabi-jpn.com/japanese-grammar/utilization-of-the-te-form/#4

Provide a conditional if or but using なら

Conditionals – Learn Japanese

Describe the frequency or periodicity of events with 回

Japanese Counter 回: Repetitive Actions (Times)

Genki grammar explanation videos by Tokini Andy (e.g. for Chapter 13): 【N4】CAN in Japanese - The Potential Form | Genki II Lesson 13 Grammar Made Clear 【Chat Removed】 - YouTube )

Discussion

This week’s practice prompt is to write:

Use the discussion to write about a part-time job (or hobby, or skill) that you would like to try out. Describe a bit of the how and why using this week’s grammar points.

どんなアルバイトがしてみたいですか。どうしてですか。

Also if you like

  • Ask questions about the grammar points and compare them to similar points.
  • Write additional practice sentences and contribute to Q/A on the exercises in the book.
  • Define your starting point - where are you now with your Japanese writing skills? How would you most like that to improve in the next year?

Join in the discussion to share your experience, cute meme, and encouragement :slight_smile:

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Anyone else read the conversation in the beginning and just think, “Wow, if only interviews were that easy in real life!”

Does anyone want to do some of the pair work exercises?

I’m still working through the lesson but I figured it would be a fun way to get this thread started!

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lol same thought!

I’d be up for doing the pair exercises - are you thinking some back and forth writing texts, or setting up a time on Discord?

I think we can probably start here. No one else is commenting, so I’m not sure if they haven’t had time to get into the book or if they’re unsure what to say, so hopefully it will encourage other people to join in!

Yeah I’ve been meaning to do the practice prompt, but I’ve been really busy with teachers throwing last minute things for me to do before classes begin :roll_eyes: I’m also stuck thinking about what kind of part-time job I want haha

What did you have in mind for pair work? Just in the threads or…?

I’m also cool with setting up a time on Discord to practice the pair work. もっと話すチャンスがいいです! :sparkles::raised_hands::sparkles:

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If everyone is happier with doing it in Discord then I’m all for setting up something in Discord

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What time zones is everybody at? I’m central time~

And availability?

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CET or CST? We have Central European time zone in here and USA time zones.

I can make a poll to see what works best for everyone

Which Days of the Week are best for partner work?

  • Sunday
  • Monday
  • Tuesday
  • Wednesday
  • Thursday
  • Friday
  • Saturday

0 voters

I figure we can pick the top 2 and have 2 sessions because I know we have all different time zones. Once we get the days we can pick time slots.

These are the time zones I know we have in here so far:

If any are missing, just let me know!

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Oops! US Central Time for me (CST/CDT). Voted in the poll.

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What times work best for everyone?

This poll is based on Universal Time (I’ve included the conversions under the poll) :

  • 00:00 - 2:00
  • 2:00 - 4:00
  • 4:00 - 6:00
  • 6:00 - 8:00
  • 8:00 - 10:00
  • 10:00 - 12:00
  • 12:00 - 14:00
  • 14:00 - 16:00
  • 16:00 - 18:00
  • 18:00 - 20:00
  • 20:00 - 22:00
  • 22:00 - 24:00

0 voters

I’m in the process of putting together a Discord server, so if any people are on together outside of whatever times are picked, they can still be used but at least if we have a starting point, it will make things easier.

4 Likes

Thanks so much for organising! This will be really motivating to have some regular sessions.

Tonight I’ll try to put up some pair work text to get things going :slight_smile: Last night I was looking through the そうです and なら points more closely.

the そうです is a bit confusing because I already learned a different form regarding hearsay in an online class I did (that form will be covered in Genki Ch 17). As far as I understand it’s like this:

おいしそうです - It looks (or It seems) it’s delicious (stem + そう, Ch 13 grammar)
おいしいそうです - I hear it’s delicious (short form + そう, Ch 17 grammar)

:worried: how is that ever going to become automatic? I mean, I remember thinking that when learning adjective conjugations, and it turned out ok. But still! Anyone have any ideas to remember how to distinguish these patterns? With the latter one, I kinda imagine quoting someone who says そうです (he said it was so…) to remind myself to use the short forms like with the quoting と particle. Whereas, with the current use, it’s a bit like an addon to my own impression, like たい which uses stems.

When I try to use grammar I learned earlier, I often mix up which forms take short forms and which take stems. That’s why I’m trying now to connect the concepts a bit more and see if that helps.

Regarding なら, I read something interesting in the DOBJG, that this is (or came from) the conditional form of the copula です。 I think that might help me to use it more correctly, because both Genki and that resource emphasize the use is for conjecture. I suspect that’s why Genki starts with just a few ways to use it rather than all ways, to reinforce good habits from the start. It’s so tempting to just assign なら = “if” but it seems it’s not that simple.

I’ll be interested what kind of impressions/sticking points you all are having with these points!

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ok, I couldn’t wait. Here is my attempt at getting all grammar points into one stream of thought. I found it easier to make it abstract, as in - I don’t necessarily identify with all of it, just having fun :slight_smile:

Edit: corrected based on comments:
歌えますか。練習をしないし、歌を知らないし、歌うのができません。でも楽しそうですね。もっと音楽の興味がありたいです。歌ができる友達がいるなら、楽しく歌いますよ。多分、一週間に一回歌ってみます。

Original, and with furigana:

歌えますか。練習をしないし、歌を知らないし、歌うのができません。でも楽しそうですね。もっと音楽の興味がありたいです。歌をできる友達があるなら、楽しく歌いますよ。多分、一週間に一回歌ってみます。
wow! to create the furigana version below I wrote the text in Word, then highlighted it and clicked the Ruby button
image and then copied that, and it created all the code to make this appear nicely here! I just had to make one correction. I didn’t know it was that easy.

(うた)えますか。練習(れんしゅう)をしないし、(うた)()らないし、(うた)うのができません。でも(たの)しそうですね。もっと音楽(おんがく)興味(きょうみ)がありたいです。(うた)をできる友達(ともだち)があるなら、(たの)しく(うた)いますよ。多分(たぶん)一週間(いっしゅうかん)一回歌(いっかいうた)ってみます。

Intended meaning:

Can you sing? I can’t sing because I don’t practice and don’t know songs, among other reasons. But it sounds fun. I would like to have more musical hobbies. If I had friends who sing, I would enjoy singing with them. Maybe I will try to sing once a week.

Writing this made me realise I don’t know the difference between し and など for having multiple reasons. I don’t think I really learned など, though, just have read it. But I’ll save that rabbit hole for another day.

I would love any corrections :heart_eyes: and looking forward to your writing!

I’m still in the process of finishing chapter 12 but I’m looking forward to the sessions once I’m done catching up. Thanks for organising! :grin:

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Try looking back into your previous post and see if you stuck to your own rule :smiley: Your english and japanese don’t agree. EDIT: after some more thought maybe you meant the “sounds” in a “seems” kinda way… hmm. I would still rather go for seems

できる normally uses the が particle or since this is a relative clause the の particle. を is really uncommen. In the previous sentence you used が with できる correctly.

All in all rough around the edges but you would probably mostly get your point across.

EDIT2: forgot

いる is probably what you would go for here.

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lol, that is really funny, thanks for pointing it out :sweat_smile:

ah, good catch, now I remember that, and the ある/いる mixup.

Thank you so much for the comments and corrections, those are all super helpful! :four_leaf_clover:

Hopefully I’m not too late here. I wasn’t sure if I should join in, but I figure I should give it a try.

I’ve been learning on my own for about 16 months, mostly reading manga (Absolute Beginners Book Club) and looking things up when I need to. I’ve been using Bunpro and I’ve learned almost all of the Genki 1 grammar points, and a quite a few from Genki 2. At some point I tried reading a few chapters into Genki 1 before getting bored with the textbook format. Hopefully doing this more actively with others will help!

My weak points are probably vocabulary, getting the right particles (manga leaves out particles all the time) and a lack of practice forming sentences on my own. I want to be able to confidently speak basic things in Japanese. My concrete goals this year are to start listening and speaking in Japanese, finish the N4 grammar on Bunpro, and maybe get a tutor as well.

I’ll be following along using Genki 2 Second Edition and the Bunpro Genki II path. In the past I’ve also found A Dictionary of Japanese Particles and A Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns really useful (as well as Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar Patterns already mentioned).

Anyways, here’s a few sentences covering this weeks grammar points. Corrections and comments welcome!


バイオリンなら楽しそうだ

If it’s violin, it seems fun.

だけど、たくさん趣味があるし, 時間がないし、新しい趣味をして見ることができない。

However, because I have many hobbies, and because I have no time, I cannot try doing new hobbies.

一日に二回日本語を勉強してる

I’m studying Japanese 2 times a day (not exactly what I’m doing, but I couldn’t think of anything better to say using 〜に〜回)

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I’m no expert, but I spent some time looking these up in more detail. It looks like し is used after verbs (or だ) giving a reason, but など is a particle marking a noun as an example. So kindof like “listing reasons” versus “listing examples”. I don’t think you could use し to list “examples of food I like”.

verb + し
noun + だ + し
verb + し + … + verb + し (for multiple reasons)

noun + など
noun + や + noun + など (for multiple non-exhaustive examples)

1 Like