Anyone doing / did AJATT?

#1

Hello everyone.
Among the many videos and websites I’ve encountered while searching for tools to learn japanese one of the resources that I like the most this days are all the AJATT related material, both in blogs and specially in Youtube videos where they put it simple with very concrete examples to actually see how is it done.

So far my routine it’s nothing like that, but I’ve tried a thing or two. Specially background japanese shows and podcast while working. So far it has been usefull to listen quite soon some of the words I’ve learn… like yesterday… I was doing my vocab lessons and 間もなく pop up, an unkown reading for the kanji 間… 5 minutes later, in the background TV show it was running, it was about someones biography… and there was 間もなく :grinning:

Has anyone here been into AJATT before o is now?? Any routine you’ve picked from this style of learning?

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Building a grammar study routine
#2

I believe parts of the AJATT philosophy are great and very helpful. The sum of it, is that it is too extreme, though. The wholesale refusal to acknowledge grammar as a useful tool, the idea that by doing nothing but input you learn better (studies have shown that words you speak are the ones you remember the best) and the idea that a beginner can listen to a language he doesn’t understand for all the hours in the day without burning out are, to me, fairly insane.

There are some very good points I have picked up, though:

  • Immersion, while tough, is also valuable as a means of motivation. Strive to listen and watch, or listen and read, a lot. But do it with materials that make sense to you, and that can be interesting even if you do not understand everything. The JALUP level guide can help with this. The feeling when you suddenly understand a whole sentence without looking anything up is incredible.
  • The “motivational” and more “philosophical” articles are very entertaining to read, and also very motivating.
  • Timeboxing, the idea of using SRS and other ideas of Khatzumoto were very novel when his blog was first made. Now, not so novel any more, but back then, major game changers.
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#3

:sweat_smile::sweat_smile: yeah… I’ve been reading Khatzumoto’s blog for some days, and so far most of the “material” has been those motivational posts, wich I enjoy, but thus far has not show me new tools (still have much to read… it’s huge!!)

Anyway some youtubers are posting some progress and recommendations on how to actually do AJATT, wich I’m finding quite useful, not necesarilly for doing AJATT myself, but I’m picking some really good advices… like the ones on making de J-J transition on flashcards, not quite my level now, but it help me to prepare myself in advance for the native material.

I see no AJATT channel or blog in the The Ultimate Additional Japanese Resources List! , but I think it’s a great resource.

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#4

The “invention” of the idea of SRS goes all the way back to the 1930s. So unless he hides his age very well, I’m gonna call BS on this one.

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#5

I did not say invention though, did I? For most of us, including me, SRS was novel at the time. Apart from some weird polish scientist dude and some other polish dudes.

But yeah, you go ahead and “call bullshit”. Seems like the thing you know best how to do.

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#6

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#7

I’ve been wondering if the like thousand hours or more of Japanese music I listen to and sing do anything for me. Sometimes, very rarely, I have a dream totally in Japanese and it seems I know more than I think I know?

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#8

Ok, I’ve done my search on AJATT here in the forum, and read some of the previous posts. So I’m getting an idea of what was the association made about this particular inmersion technique and how it was recieved (very controvertial topic back in the days I see), mostly related to the lack of a formal grammatical learning and to the famous AJATT blog creator going greedy (or at least trying to capitalize in a somewhat “in your face” marketing style).

Anyway, long time ago from those days, and while I’m reading some of Khatzumoto’s posts in the AJATT website, so far it’s mostly motivational stuff, not very concrete sources. The really interesting material comes from the guys that have been doing it recently and share some of the actual resources they are (were) using.

Yesterday I was going through this guy’s blog and found a well of resources. Most noticeable for me this Anki decks website, wich was a great surprise. Specially for the deck of the 日本人の知らない日本語 TV show !!! (with images and audio from the show :exploding_head:).

So, my original question was mostly related to the resources people doing (to any extent) AJATT are using today. Because besides of point on how of a madness you can think this method is, the exposure to japanese material really brings into atention some quality material, that anyone could benefit from. :nerd_face:

imagen

CheerS!

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#10

If you want to think that I thought SRS was invented by Khatzumoto, feel free.

If you want to do the world a favor though, stop butting in with your edgy “corrections”. Nobody appreciates an edgy forum troll. I’ve seen you bullying a lot of people on these forums. I guess you won’t care what I think, seeing as I am “human trash”, but you are being an absolute dick.

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#11

Well if we are talking strictly for entertainment purposes…

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#12

Wow, is it really necessary to say something like that? Calling someone human garbage, in any situation, let alone in response to such a mild comment, is really a terrible thing to do. It’s completely unwarranted in this situation. All @finnra did is respond to your nitpicking and call you out on your (repeated) shit. It’s not pleasant to deal with pedantic, snarky comments and negativity.

This is a forum on a Japanese-learning site. Finnra responded to a thread asking for people’s thoughts on AJATT. They shared their opinion and gave a helpful, balanced overview of this learning approach. That’s all. Whatever offense you took from that, for whatever reason… compared to the real issues in the world, and all the actual awful things that people do online and in real life… this is completely insignificant. Let’s try to keep things in perspective here…

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#13

Going back to the topic… I searched for it and it’s pretty much an illusion. It suggests not to study grammar? bs.

Basically, learning a language is like trying to build a bridge between the city “not knowing Japanese” and the city “knowing Japanese”. The problem is that AJATT implies you can build the bridge simply by building parts of it without needing things to be connected. What happens is that the parts of the bridge will be there, but you’ll never be able to cross to the other side.

Focus more on the order of things you study. It doesn’t make sense to start building a bridge halfway the river, does it? Well, people only doing WK are doing exactly that. They’re building the bridge, but it isn’t that efficient because they’re not connecting it with other language aspects (grammar, reading, speaking…).

The more balanced your skills are, the better and faster the bridge gets built. People like to isolate tools because it means that they are efficient in it. People binge WK because their Kanji study is way more efficient compared to their grammar study, for example. However, that’s just the signal that you should look for a way to increase its efficiency.

My 2 cents though.

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#14

I understand AJATT it’s hard sale nowdays… as it sounds like banging your head against the wall as a method of throwing walls down :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Sure there are some heavy head bangers out there… but most people would probably just hurt their heads.

Anyway about the actual material I’ve seen related to AJATT, I’ve located some nice resources on how to make Anki decks from TV shows, VN, and so on. I think this could be specially useful to actually learn vocab with the things you enjoy, and the content you’ll already consume.

After some more looking around I’ll post any worth mentioning resource on the Resource List post :+1:

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#15

Do they mention that only JP => EN is important? Just asking :slight_smile:

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#16

Expanding on your bridge analogy, I thought of AJATT as more like instead of building a bridge you just throw as many bricks as you can into the ocean and hope for the best.

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#17

I have read a few ajatt posts years ago and didn’t take it very seriously but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t entertaining. I think you do have to study grammar and everything though, because unlike babies and young children that learn by being immersed in it, we can’t learn that way as adults basically. Our brains sent the same anymore. :frowning:

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#18

Sorry for the late response. But actually this topic didn’t show up until yesterday while I was reading this JALUP article.

By the way Jalup has proven to be a very good resource. I always kinda looked down on this website as been a refurbished AJATT :sweat_smile: … but he gives some very good advises and actually refers to some good resources depending on the level you’re currently on.

Besides, the Jalup method it’s quite different from the AJATT method in that you get an intensive grammar workout (I don’t know of what kind, since I haven’t bought the actual material) initially, an only then starts with the vocab acquisition.

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#19

Actually, I used the method from Jalup for a while.
Mostly, their guide is what put me back on speaking terms with Anki.

Not quite. The methods rely at 99% on Anki cards. They ARE giving you vocab from the start, but instead of just words, they move very quickly to full sentences. They also follow the +1 approach, so that the decks are organized so that you only get one new word at time.

What I was mostly interested in was their J-J approach. The idea is that after 1000 cards (i.e. sentences, but also individual vocab) you are ready to switch to full Japanese, which is a much better workout for your brain.
Again, they follow the +1 method, and already taught you most of the words that are used in Japanese dictionary definitions (like 事柄 or 物事).

They have about 50 free cards from the beginner’s deck and from the J-J deck so that people can get an idea of their level.

I didn’t buy any of their content though. I started with the free stuff and just started making my own cards from there on.

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#20

Not having bought their content I can’t really argue, but I understood (and from what I saw in the 50 free cards available) that the Jalup Begginer Deck was making use of the english translation you’re allowed at first to put particles into place as well as conjugations too. It explain briefly about their use, and moves on in a +1 way.

The vocab it’s not too extensive, given the +1 manner it recycles a lot of the previous known words.

Anyway, since the AJATT method it’s been very critiziced for avoiding grammar like the plague, I think it’s a fair compromise for those who see AJATT as an option.

Besides the inmersion consisting in endless audio / TV input as background it’s explained much into detail, as you actually put selected content that you are actually capable of undertanding to some extent, as it’s supposed to be content previously reviewed, and not random japanese material.

EDIT: By the way, what part of the Jalup method did you use or are currently using?

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#21

Well, just the stuff I mentioned: free cards, plus I applied their method to make my own J-J cards.

Also, I really liked their level estimation tests, and I participated in a few monthly challenges.

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