[aDoIJG] N 💮 A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar

[Thubanshee]

Finally got back to ADoIJG! Not caught up at all, just skipped about 50 pages.

Can someone explain to me when to use なさそう vs. ないそう? I picked it up as なさそう, but always felt like it might be wrong. But now I saw the book use both forms and I’m a little confused.

[pm215]

@Thubanshee

Can someone explain to me when to use なさそう vs. ないそう?

This is two separate grammar items:

• i-adjective-stem plus そう : a judgement or guess based on visual information, “seems like”. おいしそう = “looks tasty”
• a plain form i-adjective plus そう : hearsay. おいしいそうだ = “I hear it’s supposed to be tasty”

I think these are both in the Basic volume if you need a refresher. (You can also use them with other things like verbs, I only list the formation rule for i-adjectives for brevity.)

ない the negative verb ending works like an i-adjective. So できないそうだ is hearsay, “I hear he cannot ~”. And 問題なさそう is “seems like”, “there seems to be no problem”.

[fallynleaf]

の上では

I like the note telling us の上では is not the same as の上で. I flipped ahead to compare them, and how are two grammar points so similar in composition and so different in meaning…

の上では = as far as ~ is concerned; as far as ~ goes; from the viewpoint/standpoint of; according to; in terms of

の上で = upon~; after~

The related expression note tells us that 上は (why a different reading…) is used with some nouns in the same way as の上では.

No の上では examples in Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling (unless Namba is hiding another one in some non-transcribed speech that doesn’t come up in my search).

～のは～のことだ

I cannot believe it, but there’s a ゲラ刷り sighting in example (c):

ゲラ刷りが出来るのは来月の終わりのことになるだろう。

(It will be around the end of next month when we get galley proofs.)

Throwback to this tanka that convinced me that "case particle" was maybe actually a valuable concept to learn after all:

@fallynleaf

ガレー船とゲラの語源はgalleyとぞ 波の上なる労働を思ふ

澤村斉美『galley ガレー』

新聞社の校閲記者としての歌です。「とぞ」は、格助詞「と」と係助詞「ぞ」の連語で、「～ということだ」みたいな意味です。「ガレー船」という、地中海域で使われた、主にオールでこぐ大型の軍用船と、「ゲラ刷り」の「ゲラ」の語源は同じ「galley」だというらしい、と知ったとき、大海原と室内の空間が急に繋がります。その不思議さが、言葉という小さなものを介して形成されたとき、その力を思い知るのです。

…That’s not really the matter at hand here in this entry, though. It’s just really funny to me because the only time that word has ever come up in this forum before was for this very club, haha.

The very brief note for this one says that this structure is a special form of ～のは～だ and is used when a particular time is under focus.

I think this one is nigh un-ctrl+f-able, so I’m not going to attempt to find a TJPW example.

ぬ

This is one that I understand now! It gave me trouble for a while, but eventually I got used to it, haha.

ぬ is an archaic negative marker that corresponds to ない, but is used only with verbs. The archaic ぬ is used in very stiff written Japanese, which is why there are quite a few proverbial phrases in which ぬ is used exclusive of ない. There is no past tense form for ぬ.

Except in idiomatic phrases, ぬ can be replaced by ない, but the reverse is not always the case.

The difference between ぬ and ず is straightforward: the latter can be used as a continuative form or before に to mean “without”. The former can be used at the end of a sentence or before a noun, auxiliary, or a conjugation.

The only example I found was actually from a promo I shared upthread! I'm a bit surprised that it came from Kamiyu of all wrestlers, haha. This was from the 2022.09.03 show leading up to Mahiro Kiryu and Yuki Kamifuku's tag title challenge (I've changed which grammar point is bolded from the above quote):

@fallynleaf

Hard mode: here’s the video. For additional context, both Mahiro and Kamiyu went to Toyo University, and their tag team name (Toyo Mates) is named after the school.

桐生「勝ちましたよ！」

Kiryu: “I won!”

上福「最近、マヒロちゃん全力マヒロモードじゃないですか」

Kamifuku: “Mahiro-chan is in Full Power Mahiro Mode these days, aren’t you?”

桐生「全力マヒロモードです。明日もタイトルマッチなわけですから、今日負けるわけには絶対いかないということで。全力でやらせていただきました」

Kiryu: “I am in Full Power Mahiro Mode. We have a title match tomorrow, so there was absolutely no way we could lose today. I gave it my all.”

上福「よかったー」

Kamifuku: “Good for you!”

桐生「新しい技も…」

Kiryu: “We also have a new move…”

上福「最後新しい技で勝って、マヒロちゃん付けた名前、なんだっけ？」

Kamifuku: “That move we won with at the end, what did you name it?”

桐生「技の名前ですか？ いいんですか、それで？」

Kiryu: “The move name? You’re cool with it?”

上福「いいよ、採用」

Kamifuku: “Yep, I approve!”

桐生「じゃあ、いいですか。（上福のドラムロールから）エンリョウ！」

Kiryu: “Well, okay then.” (after Kamifuku’s drum roll) “Enryo!”

上福「よっ！ 最後の２人でやった技の名前はエンリョウです」

Kamifuku: “Yeah! The name of the tag move we did at the end is Enryo!”

桐生「エンリョウっていうのは東洋大学を創った井上円了さんって人に基づいています。カタカナで」

Kiryu: “It’s named ‘Enryo’ after Enryo Inoue, who is the man who founded Toyo University. It’s written in katakana.”

上福「井上円了はバケモノ学に特化した人なので、あの技でバケモノ狩りをするってイメージで」

Kamifuku: “Enryo Inoue was a man who specialized in monsterology, so I have an image in my head of us hunting monsters with that move.”

桐生「そういうことです。それを携えて、明日もこの勢いで勝ってベルトを取って。うわぁーって、やりたいですね」

Kiryu: “Yes, exactly. We’re going into tomorrow with that in hand, and we’re going to ride this momentum and win the belts. Raaah!” (holding up an imaginary belt in victory) “I want to do it!”

上福「そうです。明日頑張るので、井上円了に恥じぬ試合をして、ベルトを２人で取ったら大学に行って、卒業後の進路を迷ってるやつらに全員アドバイスしてやる。待っとけ」

Kamifuku: “Right. We’re going to do our best tomorrow, and we’re gonna have a match that will not embarrass Enryo Inoue, and when we win the belts, we’ll go to the university and give advice to everyone who’s struggling to figure out what to do after graduation. Be ready for it.”

桐生「全員プロレスラーにしてやる」

Kiryu: “We’re going to make them all become wrestlers.”

Hey, look at that! I’m finally done with the N’s!!

[Thubanshee]

Oh, thank you! I think I got them mixed up at some point, and because they’re so similar it took me until now to realise… らしい and みたい also still give me trouble😅