Does anybody know if the translation for 海坊主風 is the one we can find in the vocab sheet, that is: “sea monster wind (slang)” ?
Edit: Now that I think about it, it makes more sense. Is this like a proper name given to this wind?
海坊主 is definitely a thing in Japan, but I think the translation “sea monster” might be misleading here (at least I think of dragon-/dinosaur-like creatures with long necks etc. when I hear “sea monster” but ymmv). This is a wikipedia article about it:
Whether or not there is actually a wind that’s called by this name in reality or whether this is just the author’s invention, I have no idea (a quick search did not give me useful results…)
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Re. book version 2 p. 92 (sharpevil’s p.5 of Chap5) Kiki says to Jiji:「…それにさ、ほうきにだって、ためには遊び飛びっていうの、させてあげなくっちゃ」I believe that it’s referring to when Kiki was learning how to fly, and Jiji begged to play on the flying broom; that was the thing that Jiji had said about 遊び飛び.
At middle p. 95 Ver.2 book (p. 8 of Ch5) description of what everyone is doing at the beach… Last line in the paragraph
あっちもこっちも笑い声と、笑い顔だらけです。I’m having trouble understanding that with vocabulary “riddled with holes” got だらけ (I will re-check the spreadsheet, maybe tonight, to see whether it’s because I have an old version).
I feel a need to rant about my confusion regarding when they are going to use kanji versus to write out a thing in hirigana, for example 腹 (stomach). It’s both ways in this book, so the issue isn’t “does the reader target grade level know this kanji”. I worry that it might be because certain phrases tend to use the hirigana (though kanji exists and is well known). I worry that I’ll never get a sense for that! But (weirdly to me) while they often use something with “そべる” to describe “sprawled on one’s stomach” in here (I remember, because my mnemonic involves me not believing that they are “sober”; aha！ 寝そべる). When it’s using 腹ばい, it’s pronounced はらばい.
From p.97
キキが声のほうをむくと、すぐとなりでおなかを下に寝そべっていた女の人が、笑いかけていました。
This bolded description was very different from English, so I found it confusing. We’d say “on her stomach”, so I would use 上. How happy I am whenever my instinct is to say “the opposite”.
I also want to see what the spreadsheet has on beginning of p. 98 for 浮きぶくろ. I think it should be life preserver. I also get “floating black bag” “bladder” and “sea urchin” ウキブクロ. I think those are all correct, because I’m willing to bet that a sea urchin looked to someone like a floating black bag (OK, checked, they did not! To me, they look like spiny balls) Many flotation devices are bladders filled with air. Edit later:. I’ve checked, and I didn’t see 浮きぶくろin the repeat book club spreadsheet, so adding it, I guess. (Hope I don’t screw this up!)
@NicoleIsEnough that was SO COOL about umibōzu!! It seems so much more"Japanese", than “sea monster”, also.
@AmomentOfMusic, what Sharpevil said. I have (音楽に (あわせて動いて))見えます in my notes, with arrows all over the place. LOL!
Ah, だらけ is a suffix that means just “riddled with” (or “sprinkled with”) and can be attached to things like mud specks, speckles or apparently even laughing faces (i.e. the beach is covered with laughing voices and faces).
We have some discussions about this in the Intermediate Read aloud session as well 
My feeling is that it does not only take into consideration “what kanji level does the reader know” as I’m seeing this effect (that a given word is sometimes in kanji and sometimes in kana) even in adults’ books. My gut feeling is that the author also considers something like “kanji density”, i.e. I suspect they don’t want to overload the pages with kanji but instead try to keep some balance? (I mean, some authors just don’t care and overload them anyways )
But this is just speculation and does not have any scientific base.
… Having said that, I just looked at the kanji you mentioned: Are you saying they have both お腹 and おなか in the book? Or are you saying that they have おなか and e.g. 腹ばい? The latter might be an indication that they wanted to save the reader from the unusual reading of お腹…
上 has rather the meaning of “above”, like 机の上に, on (i.e. in fact above) the desk. So it would be rather weird to say she was lying above her stomach, I guess?
Also please note that it’s おなか を 下に 寝そべって, i. e. she is “putting the stomach below”, which still feels slightly different to me… 
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Nb. お腹 was a typo…I used what I knew to pull up the correct kanji in my keyboard and forgot to delete the “extra” お. blush.
Thanks for the discussion. I had seen elsewhere about kanji density and balance, as well. (Sorry, no reference)
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While on the bus yesterday, I pre-read some of chapter 5 in the 2020 English release. Getting to the material in Japanese today, and also referencing the 2003 English release, I’m finding some minor differences…
| Release | Line |
|---|---|
| Japanese | 「そう、にあうわよ。あたしもむかしは、あなたぐらいやせてたのよねえ。その水着が着られるなんて、うらやましいこと」 |
| English (2003) | “Yes! It fits you fine. Just think, I used to be as skinny as you are. I really envy you, being thin enough to wear that suit.” |
| English (2020) | “Yes, you look great! I’m jealous of how well that suit fits you.” (Looks like part of it’s been condensed into inference.) |
| Release | Line |
|---|---|
| Japanese | 「でも、なんだか、体がはみだしてるみたいで……いやだなあ」 |
| English (2003) | “But I’m sticking out all over! I don’t like it!” cried Kiki, who had always worn long dresses, and had never gone out with so little on before. (Did this one add a whole extra bit not in the Japanese original??) |
| English (2020) | "It’s like my body is squished—it feels weird. |
| Release | Line |
|---|---|
| Japanese | おソノさんはそういいながら、自分もスカートをひっぱって、足をにゅっと出してみせました。 |
| English (2003) | Osono pulled her skirt up above her knees, and stuck out her own bare leg to show off what it would be like. |
| English (2020) |
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Just a short checkin for a single question today before I finish the chapter tonight. Gotta go catch the next run on SGDQ.
- それあんまりいい性格じゃないわよ - Reading this, my thought was Kiki is saying that it’s not a good personality trait. But a quick run through machine translation says it means “It’s not in your nature”. Is the computer right?
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I‘d say you are right and the machine is wrong, as it seems to have swallowed the いい. I.e. I‘m reading it the same way as you (fwiw ^^).
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I’m guessing it’s for the same reason that I can sometimes read kanji I don’t “know”–because I can get it from the context when it’s in a very familiar phrase. So, the author/editor may be trying to expose non-grade level kanji to kids through phrases that are so common that they can read them despite not knowing the kanji.
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Repeat Club Discussion (Week 9) Starts Here!
Chapter 5 Part 2
V1: Pages 110 -123
V2: Pages 99 - 110
BookWalker: ?
We’re reading to the end of Chapter 5 this week.
22 August 2020
Please briefly check whether questions have already been answered above before posting them, but otherwise don’t hesitate.
- I’m reading along
- I’m still reading but haven’t reached this part yet
- I’m dropping this book
- I’m a superhero who’s read it before but is here for chatting
0 voters
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Phew! It was a stretch, but the section is completed! Onto the next part of chapter 5. Looks like 13 pages for me. Rise and grind, no days off.
Well, maybe a half day.
- このところ流行にはとんとごぶさたなの。- Just checking my understanding, but by ごぶさた is she saying She hasn’t been keeping up with trends lately?
Not much to comment on here, other than that I’m always worried for poor Kiki whenever she goes out into the big wide world.
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That’s what I got out of it.
「ある程度の期間、関わりを持っていない状況。」
“A certain extend of time where you haven’t had anything to do with.” (Probably a really bad translation on my part.) Or re-written otherwise, “Being out of touch of a long period of time.”
I think I get this, but just in case, I’m posting it here.
ハイドウドウ wasn’t in any dictionaries, but I found this explanation:
実際の乗馬では危険です。「はい」が馬を進めるときの掛け声「どう」が制止するときの掛け声なので、同時にいわれると馬は混乱して暴れ、振り落とされてしまうかもしれません。この歌では馬ではなく熊なので心配ないのでしょうが……
From which I gather that the phrase (from a song, I think?)
馬に乗ったハイドウドウって感じ
Is feeling like you’ve just been thrown from a horse after giving it mixed messages. So, in the spreadsheet, I’m translating ハイドウドウ as “mixed signals given to a horse.”
Thoughts?
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I’m finding this week’s reading very stressful. Not the grammar, the actual storyline!
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Hoo boy. After all my bluster, I go and miss two whole days. That’s not great.
The main reason is that I had multiple assignments for a grad course all converge their due dates tonight. That wasn’t fun.
A secondary, more fun reason was that I’ve been doing more figure painting to try to manage my stress levels. Here’s my latest!
But that’s no excuse. I’ve got to start catching up, and I’ve got to start doing it right now. So, from pages 1-2 of this week’s section:
-
お水のところでぺたぺたやってんあさい - Is she saying to kick his feet against the water, so as not to float away? Or to splash around in a puddle?
-
そこにおすわりしてなさい。- This sounds a little odd, and makes me wonder if I’m misinterpreting the scene. Is the boy sitting on a floatie in the water, or on the beach? It seems odd to tell someone “Sit over there” while they’re floating around in the water, even if they are technically seated.
-
キキもつられてまたねそべりました。- Let me make sure I have this right by breaking it down. キキ - Kiki | も - particle | つられて - Te form of to be lured | また - Again | 寝そべりました - past tense of to sprawl out. So she also went over and sprawled out?
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glares at typo
Q1: I read this as your first option, i.e. he should actively work against floating away.
Q2: I interpreted it the same way, that he is floating in the water. Before that sentence the mother said that he should not go to the area where it’s deep, so I suspect this おすわり might have a more figurative meaning, as in “stay put” or something?
Q3: I think they were neighbors anyway (iirc), so I took this to mean that she followed the lead of the woman (or took this as an invitation or however you want to phrase it) and also lay down.
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Lol. Looks like the 2020 version is 超lazy
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I will never stop screwing up んなs. Don’t think it’s possible.
Read two and a half pages last night. Once the emergency started, it both became tough to put down and easy to read. I’d better ask my questions so I can hurry on to a less stressful part of this book!
- それは空から落ちてきたかと思うような激しさでした。- This is sentence was surprisingly hard to parse for such a short one. I read it literally as It was so intense that she thought it had fallen down from the sky. Which makes sense, but sounds a little awkward in english.
And, like I said, it got pretty easy to read one things went south. But, we’ll see how things go from here. I think I need to read about 3 pages a day to start 6 by friday.
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It’s a plain な 
(やってなさい)
I think that ような gives it a nuance of It was so intense that one could think it had fallen down from the sky. i.e. it’s not that Kiki really believes this but that it’s used here to draw a vivid comparison (which I’m seeing very often in Japanese stories).
But like I said, this is just a nuance, otherwise I fully agree with your translation.
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Hm. Only 99 cards to add to the anki deck for chapter 7. That must’ve been where some falloff happened.
Well, hopefully it also means that because words are being reused, there’s less to pre-study. Guess I’ll find out. Still, that means I can crank down my new words per day a bit, which I’m thankful for. Anki has been my savior for this book, but I don’t want to spend all my study time clearing out an anki pile.
Speaking of being saved, I believe on page 5 of this week’s reading, a boy and cat were in dire need of the stuff. From pages 5-7 of this week’s section:
-
あばれ馬みたいにいうことをききません - Is this saying that The broom wasn’t listening?
-
海水パンツ - I mean, I guess that’s what they are…
-
ちょっと休んだら。- Finally, I hit something I’m genuinely unsure of. The context makes me think it means something akin to “Some rest.”, or “Some break.”, said sarcastically, but I’m honestly not sure how the たら grammar works here.
-
ジジが前方を指さしました - But cats don’t have… I suppose it just means point, but still. It’s more of a つま先豆さしました.
-
飛びたいんだから、飛ばせてあげましょうよ。いたい目に合えばわかるでしょ。- Ice cold, Kiki. Ice cold.
I spent a solid 10 minutes trying to find one of those horrible old websites where you could take a photo and stick on sunglasses, a joint, a necklace that says “100% gangsta”, and an obscene amount of animated glitter, but it seems like none of them work anymore, so please imagine those things on a picture of kiki.
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