魔女の宅急便 (Kiki’s Delivery Service) Discussion Thread: Chapter 5

Yes.

This is a suggestion. the たら conditional is commonly used to give a polite suggestion. You can think of it as a shortened version of ちょっと休んだらどう?= How about you rest a bit?

Well, there’s quite a bit of vocabs containing body parts as a formality. I’d say 指差す has nothing to do with the physical 指.

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I mean, I know that full well. It wouldn’t have been used if it wasn’t the case. But I still like pointing it out.

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Looks like someone had the same idea recently : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LMU4nsNJ0

Perfect. Updated.

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I’ve been so preoccupied with not reading a little every day like I’d planned that I completely forgot to post the rest of this chapter’s photos.

Waves

Broom Thief

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Just popping in to say that I’ve been sidelined by an eye infection (fun times! 10/10 would not recommend) so you guys will have to go on without me for the time being. Will try to catch up once my eyesight isn’t constantly blurry. I feel so sad missing all the reading action!

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Sounds like it’s time for someone to get the audiobook.

Well, maybe not. Reading and listening are different skills, after all. I certainly don’t think I’d be able to follow along without reading beforehand.

Alright. Pages 8-10. Three pages to chapter 6!

  • 「あなたのために、あたし、たいへんな目にあったのよ」- Now, usually you would use せいで instead of ために for something negative, as I understand it. I suppose this is continuing the sarcastic tone from 「ごくろうさまね。魔女の服までまねて」?

  • 本当のところ、キキはおこるより、おかしくってたまらないのでした。- Not sure on this one. I’m reading it as “In truth, Kiki was more bothered by how weird it was than she was angry.”

  • キキはきんとした声をはりあげました。- I understand that this is saying she made a shrill, raised voice, but I don’t know exactly how it’s supposed to sound. Is she fully back to anger and her voice is cracking as a result? Wait, the next sentence is literally the boy asking not to be yelled at like that. Got my answer there.

  • So, there are three teams researching flight. Only one is researching witches and brooms, while the others research flying carpets and flying boots. This seemed silly to me at first, because only one of those demonstrably exists, right? Like having a cryptozoology club where one team researches yetis, one researches sasquatches, and one researches gorillas. Except… There’s a lot about this world we don’t know. If witches exist, maybe there’s other cultures elsewhere where other lineages of magic exist. Now I’m excited at the prospect of reading the other five books.

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I’m not up to this point yet (so no context), but it looks like I would I read it as:

  • 本当のところ Actually
  • キキは (topic is Kiki)
  • おこるより rather than (being) angry
  • おかしく + って + たまらない couldn’t help but be amused
  • の + でした

“Rather than be angry, Kiki couldn’t help but be amused.”

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(I haven’t read yet, but)

Not necessarily. Using せいで here would be accusing that person for being responsible. Using ために is sort of like a cause-effect here, sounds like “I faced trouble for you” (still doesn’t sound the same in English, but I guess you get the point) instead of “I faced trouble because of you”.

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Well, I’m glad to see Kiki not end the chapter so angry, but it sure is a sad chapter end, yeah?

Well, the lows are bound to be followed by some highs. Or, so I would say if I hadn’t been pre-studying the vocabulary for the next chapter. I’ve been learning a lot of negative words.

Anyway, better get on with it so I can start reading Chapter 6 tonight. From the last 3 pages of Ch. 5:

  • ほんとに何が飛ぶのかしらねえ。- I’m reading this as “I wonder what’s really allowing witches to fly”, though the grammar is a little weird to me. Is there an implied noun after の?

  • ハイドウドウ - Alright, this is in the vocab, but does anyone know what this is actually supposed to be in its source language

For the の, I have some wild theories but I’m not convinced of them myself :joy_cat: So I’ll better wait for somebody in the know to explain this.

For the ハイドウドウ there was an explanation higher up:

Here is a rough translation

In Japanese はい is the command to make a horse go, どう is the command to make a horse stop. (Dunno what they use in English, but my Cowboy movie knowledge suggests it might be something like “Yehaa” and “Hooo” respectively?)
When a horse gets those two commands together it will get confused and may act up, maybe even throwing off the rider in the process.
(And then there is something about a song where this is used.)

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The back of my book says 小学校中級以上. So more like grade 3-4 and up.

I have a suspicion that my earlier efforts in this book club may be 間違いだらけ. :joy:

“Whoa” (pronounced woe-ah, not who-a.)

And while I’m here, my daughter found this picture somewhere on the internet and we both thought it was very cute.

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Yo, just checking back in. Fell off the reading/the radar. Some real depression the last few weeks but cracked open the book read a few pages tonight. Made a few personal notes but I’m at page 107. Hopeful that I can get back on track to where the rest of the read is…Will make some more notes and check in after tomorrow’s reading.

Hope everyone’s well, god bless

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Re. ほんとに何が飛ぶのかしらねえ

@NicoleIsEnough, I’m definitely not “higher up”, but also definitely hard to “shut up” LOL
Isn’t that merely a nominalizing の to make like a gerund, since they’re talking about “flying” 飛ぶの, in general? I see from my reference, it technically turns the dictionary plain form of a verb into a noun. I learned it in Spanish as “gerund” and never thought about noun versus verb. sigh

@Kyasurin, that picture is ADORABLE!!!

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:eyes:

That was my first idea as well, but I could not really fit it into the sentence…

Alright, since you asked for it :slight_smile: here is my thought process:

A few lines earlier, the boy speculated

血が飛ぶ…? - the blood is flying?

to what Kiki echoed

何が飛ぶ… [?] - what is flying [?] (the question mark is from the かしら, so to speak)

So my exhibit A is that this is a proper sentence.

Now let’s add the の and let’s assume it is a nominalizer. What would this nominalizer attach to? The closest part of the sentence would be 飛ぶ, like you suggested, which would make 飛ぶの into a noun (“the flying”), also like you suggested. Now we end up having our sentence as:

何が (飛ぶの) - what is the flying?? I have a hard time trying to grasp the meaning.

Also, I’d rather expect a verb after 何が instead of a noun (but that might just be because I’m more used to seeing it that way).

OK, next attempt: の nominalizes the whole sentence, as in

(何が飛ぶ)の - the “what is flying” - still feels strange but I could agree with this more easily.

Now let’s add かしら (luckily it is possible to attach it to a noun, as shown in this DoJG example):

((何が飛ぶ)の)かしら - following the DoJG “teacher” example, the translation would be something like
“I wonder whether sth. is the ‘what is flying’” - but we don’t wonder whether something is it, we know something is it, and we wonder what it is, so that does not work out for me understanding-wise either.

OK, maybe it is not the nominalizing の? What else could it be?
Possessive? Clearly not.
Pronoun? Doubtful.
So, last not least we have the explanatory の:

When I looked into this yesterday, I found this option doubtful as well, but now I think it might be the best option tbh :woman_shrugging:

What do you think, @Shannon-8 ?

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Read up to page 111 today, and not going to lie. I saw an illustration on a few pages from now and I have a feeling this whole ocean thing is going to get a bit dicey lol. Anyway, good morning reading. Glad to be back. Had a few questions but I’ll browse the thread before posting them…

Do feel like I’m in a bit of rush but that’s okay, maybe.

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ため息をつく (with great affection)
(Nb. ため息をつく is Kiki’s Vocab)
I will go look at that more once I “wake up”…(I will very likely edit this post)

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Catching up on some reading and wanted to quick post a few questions…

お母さんの見えるところにいるのよ

Here, I understand it’s like. “You are in a place where your mother can see you.” I believe the mother is speaking to the child here. However, why の is being using to connect mother and 見える eludes me. I thought it would be が but clearly I’m turned around.

Anyway blasted through 3 pages today, felt good. Glad to be back on the train, feel like I’m understanding most things but sometimes settling for maybe just the gist…idk…keeping an eye on it.

But, just going to muse for a second…Sometimes I don’t feel like it’s the gist, and I just don’t need to translate it. I feel sometimes like I need to completely translate a sentence and parse individual things. Then sometimes I just read it and its look zip zap zop. And it’s hard to tell whether I should be more specifically parsing those sentences, but I feel pretty good about them. so that’s all to say Idk. Having a good time.

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In relative clauses it is ok to replace が by の if there is a verb following the が. The meaning remains the same. This is a mechanism to avoid confusion because of multiple が in the same sentence if there are a few relative clauses.

I personally think this is a great sign of progress! I usually keep reading in these situations. Sometimes I might later encounter something that doesn’t match my understanding so far, and then I will go back and check where I fell off the tracks. Or if somebody mentions something on the forums that goes counter to my understanding.
Does this mean I understand everything correctly? I have no idea tbh :joy_cat: But it doesn’t matter that much to me really. I know I will understand more next year, and even more the year after, and that’s what matters to me. (You know, I’m studying and using English for a really long time now, and I still don’t think I understand everything correctly… :woman_shrugging:)

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I figured it was more of the soft sentence ending の、made even go l softer by the かしら。

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