日の出 - Why "Sunrise" and not "Sunset"?

I agree its all about the nuance of 出る。
出かける。has the nuance of ‘im going out of the (house)’

出ちゃう。kids say this as in ‘its coming out (pee or poop)’

So in the case of 日の出 the sun is coming out.

There’s a difference? I mean… I guess there would be a difference. But then, in that sense, if you’re right outside their door (class in the hallway, or house on the street), they have just exited the room/building. So… We’re back to an exit. But an exit “coming out” into view again. Hmm…

Wow.

Hmm…

So from inside to outside where you can see them…
Sort of super-specific like with 入れる… to insert, to put in…
… Perhaps?

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Actually, in this case I could see using the same word from both the inside and outside perspective. :sweat_smile:

Using that “insert” I just referenced, too…

Hmm.

Oh boy. XD

Oh no. XD But thanks, that somehow helps a bit, too.

でしょう?

Seriously though, thank you, everyone. 本当にありがとう。Just talking it out will help cement this…
Much appreciated.

… And maybe it’s not a language thing. Maybe, like I’ve always said (at least since first year of University), like I’ve thought since then, too… I just think backwards from most people?

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So why is it translated as exit instead of something like emerging?

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Perhaps 出 (the Kanji) has a major meaning of ()てくる or otherwise appearing.

Otherwise, 消, 失 would have a meaning of disappearing.

Not yet said, but to compare, 入 has a meaning of entering a socket or a bag (()れる)?

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Oooh, that’s a good point!

Question for the WK peeps? Is someone on staff still answering Japanese questions? Mami, I think it was?

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You can also take a look at the transitive version of 出る which is 出す. Let’s say if you have a present inside a box. プレゼントを出して! “Take it out of the box!” or probably more literally: “Make it come out of the box.”

箱からプレゼントが出た! A present came out of the box!
日が出た The sun came out.
日の出 sunrise

Emerge might lend a more accurate initial impression, but the word “emerge” is far less common in English than 出る is in Japanese. And 出る still does have the meaning exit.

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I guess this is one of those times where there’s just always going to be a bit of messiness

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It makes sense to me.

日の入り - the sun appears to be disappearing into the Earth at sunset
日の出 - the sun appears to be coming out of the Earth at sunrise

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I think a point to remember is that one English word to one Japanese word will very seldom encompass the whole meaning of either word in either language.

出る is not equal to “to exit”, it only encompasses it in at least one main meaning.

For example, take the kanji 撤 that WK gives the meaning of withdrawal. In the original meaning explanation, it implied drug withdrawal and then when I got the vocabulary it turned out it wasn’t that type of withdrawal at all. But more the withdrawal of troops/acceptance/approval. (In my head, these are very different uses of withdrawal even if one can argue the meanings are similar.) (The meaning explanation changed after I told them of my complete confusion when the term was about a different withdrawal.)

So I think the important thing is to hold the English glosses of Japanese words more loosely. There are few if any one-to-one relationships between English and Japanese. Perhaps animal names, but I am sure someone can disprove that in two seconds flat.

When I find myself in this situation, I try to formulate it in a way that works for me. Day exits night, sun exits into the sky, sun exits the other hemisphere (into my own), etc.

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There is no one to one relation between English and Japanese words, so discussing the English nuance of “exit” can be misleading.

You can think of 出る as “come out” instead of “exit”, if that helps.
When the sun comes out, it’s surely sunrise, isn’t it?

There’s this expression 顔を出す, which basically means “make an appearance”, not hiding or leaving.
And the expression 姿を消す (it was used ad nauseam in one book I read), that would mean leave by disappearing from view.

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In 日の the sun comes out (from behind the curvature of the planet. in 日の入り it enters (the horizont)

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From my husband:

“The sun is coming out 出てくるから、日の出 is sunrise. Probably a long time ago, people saw the sun returning to the sea or earth like it’s entering it, so that’s likely why sunset is called 日の入り.”

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出る can also mean appear (as in participate) like in those articles in nhk easy news during the olympics, this verb was always appearing talking about players and country delegations.

a good example for immersion to finally understand one of the nuances of this verb.

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There’s a lot of arguing on semantics in the thread, but it could just as easily be a result of pragmatics. (Though, in this case, it probably is actually semantics…) Nonetheless, the entire point should be to find a way to get it into your mind, right?

Thus, my mnemonic is the recognition that some ancient cultures saw a sunset as a sun deity returning to (entering) its dwelling, while sunrise was that same sun deity going out to the world from (exiting) its dwelling.

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I am not sure how the Japanese thought, but as a reference, it is expressed in a similar way in Chinese too. (日出, without the の which is obviously Japanese) So I guess it may also be possible that is affected by ancient Chinese?

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Thank you, Delvin. I find that helpful, too. ^^

And yes though, it is semantics. And perhaps some people don’t like to argue them, but personally, I do. Semantics matter - especially in matters of language, I believe. So… *shrugs*

However, mainly, this whole discussion did well to cement the vocab in my brain. I passed the first time it came around, the 4 hour review. (Can’t remember if I saw it a second time or not, yet. Considering this is two days later, I probably have.) There is no 1 solution for me in this thread… 2 or 3 of you combined would be “the” solution, if I could mark it as such all together. But, hey, that’s how discourse does/doesn’t work, so… *shrugs*

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I was wondering this too, now it makes sense to me. Still kinda funny though!