I’m currently on Level 14, and I was really stumped by one set of the Patterns of Use suggested for 完了: 完了と～.
I’m familiar with a couple different ways と is used (“and” in lists of things, quotations, various forms of the concept “with”), but this one’s beyond me. I have a friend who does translation professionally, and she said the only one of the 完了と～ examples which made any sense at all to her was 見なす (because it takes と in the way that 言う or 思う does). As she put it, “I don’t know what crack they’re on for となる or とする.” But she’s curious to know if there’s something to them.
I tried Googling 完了となる and 完了とする, and yeah… 完了となる has zero matches; 完了とする only gets as close as 完了する or 完了とは, which obviously is something else entirely.
I know WaniKani has a reputation for goofball vocabulary, but this is the first time I’ve (knowingly) run into this sort of thing with the Context section content. Does anyone understand what’s going on with these examples?
It’s a little concerning. Now I’m wondering what other use examples might be complete nonsense or basically unused, if these indeed are.
[Edit: realized it might be useful if I added a screenshot or link to the content in question…]
と can also be used for “when” which could be a use, “when complete”? However, the pairing of “完了と” when とする and となる are combinations on their own seems strange to me, so if anyone has further info please add
There’s nothing nonsensical about 完了とする or 完了となる, but they probably don’t need to be listed as specific things to go out of your way to learn. As an aside, I saw instances of both of them searching on twitter. (I only mention that since it seems to do better at finding little snippets of stuff than google at times).
If your friend thinks となる or とする are strange, even outside of the context of this discussion about 完了, then that’s a strange comment for them to make.
EDIT: Rather than random tweets, I thought you might prefer some more “official”-seeming examples, so here’s a form that includes 完了となる
She was specifically answering in the context of being attached to 完了, sorry if that is not clear in my post. Her focus is usually on what would typically be witnessed in speech or text or what feels natural; not necessarily if you could do it, but would it make sense to, especially if there’s a broadly used and accepted way to say the same thing.
Thank you so much for finding official sources where 完了となる and 完了とする are being used! My friend was interested in seeing a real-world usage case, so I will share these with her.
With the severely broken English* I see on social media sometimes, I admit I would be hesitant to put much weight on a few tweets for whether or not something was “legit” for Japanese.
I will say I think the format of 完了と～ in the Context section is confusing in that it suggests と is added as a particle to 完了, since this is the standard practice I’ve seen so far in Patterns of Use. Given my limited knowledge of grammar, it never occurred to me to look up とする or となる as their own whole pieces. Oh well.
Thanks, everyone!
*to be clear, I’m not talking about dialects, slang, regional differences, etc., but straight-up unintelligible writing.
Because your “caution” basically amounts to telling OP “don’t ask questions!” I’m not objecting to you setting them straight, I’m objecting to you following it up with “keep your confusion to yourself so it doesn’t confuse other people.” It’d be one thing if they wandered into someone else’s thread and started posting conflicting information, but this is their thread.
Maybe the language they used in their post was excessively colourful, but on the other hand, WaniKani is hardly infallible - they’ve been wrong before. It may not be crack, but I’m pretty sure WK are smoking something.
Aye, considering our own level is well and all, but when the ol’ Japanese girlfriend / Japanese penpal / friend who works professionally with Japanese exists as an authority figure to throw doubt on WaniKani by using the classic anecdotal “oh, Japanese people never say that”, that’s when that little worm of uncertainty turns up.
Er… Hold on now, I wouldn’t have bothered to ask if we thought WK must be wrong. I came to the forums because we both figured someone might have answers.
WaniKani is taking these from the Tsukuba Web Corpus, and indeed 完了となる and 完了とする seem to be pretty frequent in that corpus.
You can check out all the sentences it’s found in yourself. 完了 seems to mostly appear not as a standalone noun, but in compounds such as 申し込み完了となる and 予約完了とする. I have to say both are not collocations I would think of teaching to beginners, but oh well. https://tsukubawebcorpus.jp/headword/N.01836/
Oh wow, this is an absolutely AMAZING resource! Thank you so much! I immediately sought out the base search page and bookmarked it (here’s a link for those who want it.) It’s so well organized and easy to use! I’m going to be using the heck out of this!
