MB, I misread the question and now it has me rethinking me entire life.
I thought the childishness of だって would be fine because he was talking to a child.
MB, I misread the question and now it has me rethinking me entire life.
I’ve been so busy with work during the week that I only just read the chapter. That’s what I get for letting Elden Ring monopolize the weekend.
I agree the choice of where to end the week’s reading is quite compelling. @sumsum could be on the staff of the studio that makes Attack on Titan with those cliffhanger skills I’m really looking forward to next week’s reading!
I’m glad サブバッグ was discussed. Really appreciated @Hantsuki’s detailed explanation. It’s cool to have the perspective of someone living in Japan.
Man, things are going from bad to worse for Hanabi so far Hopefully cool Aunt can save the day!
Hopefully, Hanabi can adapt. At least, she has someone to talk to, right now.
This thread is so lively. I am gonna take a lot of grammar and translation learning right now.
Whew. Managed to finish within the week! This week didn’t feel quite as hard as the first one, somehow.
I sure hope this is a turning point for Hanabi and something good starts happening for her soon, because spending hours deciphering Japanese only to be rewarded with, “Sad Hanabi is so sad that watching some girl buy a fried chicken bento is basically the highlight of her whole week” is some depressing stuff.
Just finished the first part. The middle of this week’s reading was in my opinion quite difficult. Loads of complex sentences, but it let up really nicely at the end. I’m glad I could finish the first part in the allotted time even though I was quite busy during the week.
The story is starting to get really interesting. I bet the mysterious bento girl will come back to play a part later also quite assholish of the dad to not even consider helping the mom out, even if she works this much overtime, quite the stuck-in-the-past behaviour from him
~ second week on the chapter starts here ~
Okay, I know we’re supposed to be on week 2, but can we go back to week 1 for a sec and
talk about fried chicken girl?
Hanabi giggles because “fried chicken bento doesn’t really suit her”.
So uhh, what about this girl makes her incongruous with fried chicken? Do fashionable girls not eat fried food? I know Japan occasionally has some cultural associations with food (i.e. grown men aren’t supposed to enjoy sweets), so maybe someone with closer cultural understanding can give some perspective on this?
Yeah, nevermind that week 2 stuff, I gotta finish off week 1!
ebook page 22:
I think that sentence means literally speaking something similar to “Those drawings are all extremely cute, and I’ve come to wanting to making (drawing?) stuff like that too.”, but I’m not quite sure what to make of the こんなのほしいって. “This kind of… の… desiring… [casual topic marker て?]”…? “Speaking about wanting something like this”?
Is that “Besides, mama also said “She’s a bit unusual/eccentric.”, and I got the feeling that for some reason or another she probably doesn’t want to let me meet Aiko-san.”?
What’s the という there? Emphasis marker?
ebook page 23:
What is that 言うなり? I guess it might be a continuative ~i 言いなる, like the もどり, but I don’t know what 言いなる is either. And so far I’ve seen both て and continuative ~i as an “and”, and now I’m wondering if there is any difference, considering this sentence uses both…
Man, I feel a bit stupid for needing both DeepL and Google to figure out that 「ママが止めに来た。」 is “Mama came to stop me.” I guess it didn’t help that I’ve only learnt and seen that grammar with 行く so far, and that てくる feels like it’s used almost more often than vanilla 来る, so that was my first association (never mind the missing て).
Also… it felt very good to read Hanabi telling off her parents again!
I have no cultural insights, but yeah, I assumed that she just looked so stylish that Hanabi couldn’t imagine her eating something as mundane (/fatty/unhealthy?) as karaage.
In regards to the girl introduced in the first half of chapter 2, it’s not that fashionable people don’t eat karaage, it’s just that it’s a very ordinary meal (and not really a meal, but often eaten as a side to real meals). It would be the same reaction if she chose takoyaki (but since the setting is Tokyo if I remember correctly, the author wouldn’t choose takoyaki unless they wanted to suggest the character had ties to western Japan). They’re both foods that anyone would eat, so conbinis and supermarkets tend to have a lot of them in stock. The average salaryman will often grab one with a beer for dinner after a long day of work, and this would suggest he’s single because otherwise his wife would have a balanced meal (protein, miso soup, rice, vegetables) waiting for him at home.
From Hanabi’s perspective, she probably expects her to eat something a little more “foreign” like Japanese-Italian or French food, or even just something with a more balanced diet. Even hamburger steak would be appropriate because it often comes with rice and a side of salad (and it’s a little bit more on the pricey side) while karaage is about the cheapest bento you can get at the conbini.
If you want to take it a step further, the reason why Hanabi feels interested in her is because she feels like someone she can relate to despite appearing so “fashionable.” They pick the same meal, and as we find out when Hanabi eats it at home, it’s not very good (it really isn’t; they make a batch in the morning and early noon and the leftovers sit out all day - you eat it because it’s cheap and convenient).
You would think that someone like “karaage girl” (as we call her) to have a more refined taste and wouldn’t be satisfied with just karaage. Probably Hanabi isn’t thinking this far, but what the author wants the reader to think about is this girl isn’t what Hanabi imagines her to be. Her family might have financial problems or she’s in a similar situation as Hanabi in terms of family issues. Or perhaps her culture is different. Otherwise, a typically Japanese mother wouldn’t let her growing child resign to eating something as unhealthy as karaage for a late snack/dinner. At least that is the expectation here.
And this is also one of the reasons why Hanabi’s father is upset at her mother - she should be taking care of her child and her family, but she’s letting her job take up all her time. Of course, that means the father should be the one to step up and support Hanabi more but he can’t get away from the expectations set up by patriarchal Japan so…
(Let me know if anything needs to be clarified. Tan-chan kept touching the keyboard while I was typing so there might be some random letters somewhere. )
Thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed explanation! That’s just the kind of perspective I was looking for.
(Also now I feel like a bit of a slob. I would totally eat takoyaki as a whole meal and spare no thought for nutritional balance. :P)
It’s a cultural difference. I used to be really bad as a kid having orange soda for breakfast and cola for dinner and snack foods throughout the day. But my body can’t do that anymore. When I went back to the states for a while, I realized everything tasted too salty or too sweet, and I couldn’t enjoy my favorite fast food restaurants anymore!
My husband told me about his experience doing a homestay in Northern California in the states, and his host family would give him cookies and cola for lunch. And his body wasn’t used to eating junk food so he got really sick and couldn’t go to school for a couple days. Western society (or maybe just specifically the US?) is just accustomed to eating lots of processed and junk foods. Japan is gradually moving in that direction too though.
That’s correct. You dropped an also somewhere (I also had the feeling) but otherwise I would probably go for the same translation.
I would say this という is cititation of the sound that is produced. Shortened without all the other fluff the result would be ドンという音
That is a grammar point which you just have to know. 【N1文法】＜動詞辞書形＞なり〜 | ちよさんぽ
It’s a sentence from the perspective of the narrator.
Been thinking about this for a while but didn’t arrive at a solid conclusion. The の could be the placeholder for イラスト. って I’m not too sure what purpose it serves here…
Don’t worry about still discussing the first part I made the post more as a marker for people that don’t wanna read about the second part yet that there might be 2nd week discussions coming. (I also added a link to the intro post in case someone wants to specifically go to 2nd half discussions but I might update that once the first actual questions/discussions for the 2nd half come up). I haven’t started myself yet but might do so tonight
It’s right after Hanabi says something (and isn’t Hanabi mostly the narrator anyways?) So with the grammar explanation is this something like “Right after I said that/Having said that, I left the living room, went to my room and hurriedly packed a change of clothes into a rucksack.” (gosh it feels weird to add so many pronouns that aren’t there in Japanese, alternatively you could probably also go for third person without much change… “having said that, she left the […]”)
I’m not too sure but I would go for the detached 3rd person description you alluded to at the end of your question. But that is just based on the explanation of the なり grammar point I linked to saying it is used to describe a 3rd persons actions. Not anything else in this sentence ^^.
What makes me question that a bit is that like you said the sentence before (あたしは続けた) is clearly from her perspective.
To be fair I’ve not yet learned N1 grammar and it’s only the 3rd time I’ve seen this grammar used (the other 2 times it was clearly 3rd person) so I’m def not an expert when it comes to it.
One of the last sentences is the one I’m questioning myself on but this is what I have:
It was just a bit embarrassing. Besides, there are kids like that here from time to time.
Really enjoying actually getting through a book without it feeling that draining haha, so thank you guys for this recommendation!
While I’ve not seen なり much in the wild yet, either, there seems to be some conflict in the sources I found online; some indicate it’s not supposed to be used with first person, but others don’t specify. I couldn’t seem to find a great reason for the disconnect in Japanese (since the sources which didn’t specify tended to mostly be aimed at foreign learners, one Chinese source, the rest English, though one all-Japanese source also failed to specify), besides this HiNative discussion:
One of the posts indicates that while it is generally used for the third person, it can sometimes be used for first person. A couple of the other comments give some examples, and one of them fits here:
My rough interpretation, “It doesn’t feel right. I have the impression that I’m describing my own personal affairs as if I were another person. However, if it’s in the context of a diary or memoir, in which my actions are objectively noted, it doesn’t feel wrong to me.”
While this isn’t a diary or memoir, it is a piece of writing in first person where the narrator’s actions do get objectively noted, so I think it’s safe to assume it remains first-person. But for non-literary purposes, probably safest to use なり to talk about a 3rd party.
I would also note that it wouldn’t make any sense for the author to switch to a third person narration for a single sentence, then immediately go back to first person when the entire novel has been first person throughout. I am not sure how strict Japanese writing is on that, but a POV switch from first to third in English would generally be considered bad writing, especially if it was just for a single sentence and not some narrative/framing trick designed specifically to create some disconnect for whatever reason (which could be good writing if used correctly, but would still be flagrantly breaking established grammar rules/practice).
Just noticed you expressed being unsure. I think the first part is more like:
“He was just being shy/he was just feeling embarrassed.” With a strong personal preference towards the first one. Yamato-kun is definitely the subject by context, and the situation itself wasn’t particularly embarrassing, so I think he is just a little shy/anti-social.
I think you’ve got the second part right, though!
Done with this week. Many new expressions and words for me this time around. My favorite was 目が点になる.
Thanks @downtimes, that all makes a lot of sense!
Regarding なり - both https://jlptsensei.com/learn-japanese-grammar/なり-nari-meaning and なり (JLPT N1) | Bunpro – Japanese Grammar Explained (mentions “なり is generally used when speaking about others”, but has first person perspective examples) seem to have absolutely no problem using it in first person perspective. And I agree, in the context of the sentence it sounds very much like “As soon as I said that, I…”
Thinking about it some more, a few (contradicting) possibilities…
- I briefly considered that it is actually her saying that fragment with the って言って shortened to a って. But I am not sure where that would leave us.
- (edit: It might make sense if the の is refering to something else than the drawings, maybe? Like the ability to draw like this, or having other people depending on her for drawings? “I want these drawings” doesn’t make much sense to me to be honest.)
- I think it might be the topic marker, specifying what that what she wants to 自分でも作りたい is こんなのほしい. Can ほしい also mean something like “desirable”? Like… “This kind of desirable illustration”? That would fit well into the sentence I think - “Those drawings are all extremely cute, and I’ve come to wanting to making desirable illustrations like this too.” If not, I’m pretty unclear what the ほしい is doing here.
- (edit: Thinking more about it, if it is that, wouldn’t it be weird for the adjective to be after the replaced noun though? Wouldn’t that rather be こんなほしいのって? Or is it missing a が too, like こんなのがほしいって? I’m afraid I don’t actually know enough about this and I’m just making up stuff at this point )
Maybe someone has a better idea about this sentence?
This sentence is confusing me too, I interpreted that part like want this kind of thing with the の at the end working as a nomonalizer like seen here in the こそあど section, but I’m not really sure.
Is it possible for the って here to be short for って思って?
Disclaimer: I’ve not been reading all posts in this thread - my apologies in advance if I say something that’s been discussed / mentioned already.
My interpretation is the following: I think what is missing is the the context from the previous sentence, there it’s explained that :
This means that the illustrations that Hanabi looks at are in books / magazines regarding handmade-craft, which is precisely Hanabi’s hobby. So, it’s not that Hanabi is saying she wants to draw, she’s saying that 愛子さ’s drawings are so charming that she wants to do handcrafting required to produce the items being illustrated in those handcraft books / magazines.
そのイラストが => these illustrations
どれも => all of them
すごくかわいくて => are so cute AND
こんなのほしいって => “って” is simply the quotation particle here: ‘I want this kind of thing!’ Here の represents the item being displayed in the book/magazine and represented by 愛子さ’s illustration.
自分でも => even myself
作りたくなってしまう => unintentionally become wanting to make.
Putting all that together:
“These illustrations are all very cute, ( and that makes me go ) ‘I want this kind of thing too’ and want to even make one myself”