ルーパーズ ♾ Chapter 13 (Visual Novel Book Club)

Daisoujou · October 15, 2022, 4:58pm

Current chapter start date: October 14, 2022
Home thread: ルーパーズ ♾ (Visual Novel Book Club) // Currently Reading!

Loopers

Previous part: Week 12

Next part: Week 14

We’re reading ルーパーズ as part of the Visual Novel Book Club!

As of the time of posting this, reading is scheduled for 1 chapter per week. But feel free to jump in and ask questions or give your thoughts later! There are always people watching these threads

Pace

The current chapter can be seen in the menu, and you’re encouraged to keep an eye on that if you wish to read at the club’s official pace! To make this easier, the following image also marks the end of the chapter. While the image may not necessarily be a meaningful spoiler, it’s collapsed by default as there’s no reason to immediately display the images to anyone who crosses through this thread. 用心するに越したことはない

Chapter End Image

Discussion Guidelines

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Have fun, and do your best to interpret anything said with as much good faith as possible

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2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz · October 15, 2022, 10:40pm

… what a chapter.

One question please

When the girls are talking around the portal, ヒルダ says the following about タイラ:

What does she mean with 3つ付く ?

Speculation (chapter spoilers)

This might be kinda obvious now but… my best guess at this point is that the little girl we’ve met in the intro chapter is ミア. As far as I remember, it’s not mentioned why she’s there, but she was definitely a patient and not a vistor. She’s sick. Probably with a terminal illness - if she escapes from the 時の渦 she’ll die. That’s why she refuses to go back.

There’s still something that doesn’t quite fit though, which is basically 探し女. If she’s indeed ミア, it’s a bit hard to imagine what exactly she’s regretful about. It’s hard to think at this point that she regrets not taking the portal at least. Is it about having brought the 時の渦 on them? That also seems unlikely seeing how they all seem to have escaped. Also, she seems to be looking for something…

Really looking forward to last remaining chapters!

rikaiwisdom · October 18, 2022, 7:42pm

Chapter spoilers

I’ll shamelessly admit that I didn’t know either and just decided to skip it, sorry .

That makes a lot of sense. It might actually be the reason she caused it in the first place so she could continue living. I’m also a bit confused myself about how 探し女 fits in all this. Perhaps it wasn’t on purpose and that’s why she regrets doing something, or maybe she miscalculated. She still hasn’t mentioned anything about knowing タイラ ever since that hint in a previous chapter. He doesn’t seem to remember her but I think she does remember him after all.

I’m sure next chapter will be an interesting one. Now the rest of them have to know about ミア staying back, and obviously they won’t give up on her. I’m just wondering what clever device will サイモン come up with. He did mention being interested in knowing how to trigger the phenomenon at will if I remember correctly. Perhaps through helping 探し女 and recreating how she did it we’ll retrigger the phenomenon.

This chapter was really nice, got me quite interested again. Not that I wasn’t interested, I was enjoying every week, but I do admit I’ve been wanting action and plot development for quite a while already . Still four chapters left, should be enough to hopefully give it a proper ending.

With all the info and theories we’ve talked about, my current guess is that interacting with 探し女 we’ll learn that ミア was indeed sick, and that she started the loop. Then we will help 探し女 with her search, whatever that is. I’m guessing that the last chapters will be us triggering the loop again, and then we go back and save ミア, in such a way that through some sort of magic related to the prologue’s fairy tale we’re able to “revert” or cure her sickness with the power of love and friendship . And then happy ending, everyone is back in the present, ミア is cured, and they continue to be friends doing treasure hunting. The end. Or, now that I think of it, hopefully not the complete opposite, you know. It’s my first VN, I’m naive okay D:

This time we’ll finally get to see カイ and クロ make an appearance, hopefully. I’m just wondering in which way will they be able to help, or what type of characters they are, personalities, abilities and so on.

Daisoujou · October 18, 2022, 10:34pm

For the purposes of my expectations, while I work on catching up, can anyone who has finished this give me their general guess at how long it is? It’s fine if you don’t have character counts, maybe just how it felt relative to the prior chapter or something?

rikaiwisdom · October 19, 2022, 12:55am

Sure! I didn’t clear my HTML yet: it marks 6106 characters / 270 lines.

Should be quite accurate cause the hook has been perfect so far, but as always, I can’t really know for sure ^^ .

Daisoujou · October 19, 2022, 2:01am

Oh thank you, that’s easy! Assuming no disasters I’ll get caught up right before the next week starts

Daisoujou · October 19, 2022, 4:43pm

I was similarly confused, but I found someone else asking about exactly this on HiNative: What is the meaning of "バカが3つ付くくらいに素直で一途なんだ"? - Question about Japanese | HiNative

Daisoujou · October 20, 2022, 6:17pm

I caught up, just in time! Sorry for being kind of unreliable, sick of it myself heh. At least I’ve kept things running Thanks so much for the character count by the way, it was dead on. Often I leave room for a little estimation cause it might miss a line I don’t notice here or there, or purge some repeated characters, or etc, but no, I matched exactly.

Very much appreciate having this group cause this semi-obligation probably helped pull me back to learning Japanese after a total stress-induced break there and I’m getting back into it a bit now.

Given some of the estimates people were posting before about us having long chapters coming up, and the last two being pretty short, I’m thinking we might be in for some pretty lengthy ending ones?

Spoilers

Well I was missing the “ミア caused this,” which I guess I should have thought about given the circumstances, suspicious 探し女 and things like how ミア was, IIRC, trapped the longest of the group. That said, the general ideas about how illness pretty much match what I was saying last chapter! I think we’re all hovering around parts of the answer, probably just missing some other piece.

That chapter was quite enjoyable! I’m with @rikaiwisdom, definitely more of a fan of when the plot picks up. It’s not really an aversion to slice of life or even Key style because I previously played and pretty much loved all of Summer Pockets, but I think what I’m landing on with this VN is that there is a solid core cast and interesting story at the heart of it, yet it’s lacking some of the charm of the really great examples of this style. Probably a solid “good but not great” kinda VN that I’d focus less on the negative aspects of if reading in a foreign language wasn’t making them take as long as they do sometimes, haha.

But by now we should definitely be strapped in for things to stay interesting and high stakes, I think. Can’t wait.

rikaiwisdom · October 20, 2022, 6:43pm

Sounds great! So far what I found the most comfortable has been chapters around 10-12.000 characters. It’s long enough so it doesn’t feel too short, but also not too long so that in case you have a busy or lazy week it’s not hard to catch up. I guess it depends also on the level, I feel like it’s just right for me personally. That being said, this chapter got me so much into it that I read the last 5000 characters without even noticing the passage of time and left me wanting more . So if the hype is high and the difficulty isn’t too much, I don’t really mind longer chapters for future VNs because I’m really liking the medium. It’s just a matter of how effectively can the thing I’m reading hold my interest I guess.

It’s nice indeed . This and the read/listen everyday threads are my daily motivation boost, pretty much what I look forward to and exclusively interact with at this point in WaniKani. So thanks again for organising it and I hope you’re feeling a bit better!

AzusaChan · October 22, 2022, 6:25pm

I finished this chapter a little late but it is done now.

Spoilers

I think this was one of the better chapters so far. The previous theories from the last chapter that something was going to happen to ミア were right. It’ll be interesting to see how the rest of the cast will take the news that ミア caused the time loop and how they’ll go about trying to save her.

I do wonder how the previous survivors time loop started. They said ミア caused this one but the previous survivors that were in a loop were quite a few years before their time? I am going to assume there is no way ミア could have had any relation with that one lol.

Good chapter though, I’m definitely looking forward to how this one ends.

ccookf · November 9, 2022, 4:06am

I wasn’t planning on finishing this chapter today, but I guess I should just plan on getting sucked in through the end…

minor thoughts

I know it was mostly me being a slow reader, but Tyler and Mia’s discussion at the end was starting to give me Namek flashbacks.

Aaaand when yall put it that way I’m getting Endless Eight flashbacks.

At this point I think it’s more of a design fault. As flat as they are there was just no way to make the side characters into completely faceless mobs (I mean that quite literally), but they also didn’t want to commit to the extra time and resources to expand the character development. It kind of forces the game into more of a story driven style than a character driven one. It’s not like an otome (galge?) where the routes bring an opportunity to focus on characters within a given plot. In last week’s thread AzusaChan made that nice comment about the nakige genre and Loopers feels like a relatively lean implementation of that now. The only characters that have gotten attention are the ones that are necessary to main plot, but as a consequence all of the interactions that aren’t in service to story are degraded. It’s almost like someone imposed a deadline/budget and this was the result.

One one hand I like getting things that are a bit streamlined, on the other the “what if” questions really eat away at me. It’s almost a shame to see these kind of interesting character illustrations (designs) get wasted like this. With the way it is now those characters are undeveloped so they either act like a template or feel out of character whenever they actually demonstrate having a character… feels bad man. Using this chapter as an example that bit where Simon, Joe, and Tyler get the comatose Loopers out of the hospital and start complimenting each other in a weird circlejerk just came off as weird to me. It’s like they didn’t have a way of making Joe fit in well, so they did that. It’s really unfortunate since it always feels like we have hints of this considerate person there, but it just gets buried in very template-y Joe moments. Simon’s gag didn’t come off as quite as bad to me because at least he’s gotten respectable screen time and demonstrated goofiness.

I’m pretty sure I said this before, but even adding just an extra chapter to explore miniature character arcs within the loop would have gone a long way to opening up those characters as well as giving room for more nuanced writing. I still like this game, but it’s in that weird gap where I’m just kind of mad because I feel like a little bit more something probably would have pushed it into a great game.

Edit: It’s been a long time since I’ve thought about it, but this has reminded me a lot about the sort of weird sekaikei genre.

Sylph · November 15, 2022, 10:34pm

I was planning to read maybe half the chapter today but things got interesting and I ended up reading it surprisingly fast at 35 minutes. And the only reason I don’t continue is that I don’t have more time. As expected ミア wasn’t going back… I had no idea why but if she says she doesn’t exist ‘tomorrow’… I guess that illness at the begging of the game wasn’t curable. Still really curious how it fits with the initial tale and the 探し女.

TobiasW · May 5, 2023, 3:10pm

Chapter notes

Well… it was quite clear that something goes wrong with Mia soonish, and now we know what. And now, most of what the 探し女 says makes sense to me:

探さなきゃ: She has to search for the gate to get back.
謝らなきゃ / ごめんなさい / わたしが間違ってた: Either she wants to apologize to everyone for causing this whole 時の渦 incident, or she wants to apologize because she didn’t take Tyler’s advice of getting back. Since she “made a mistake”, I assume it’s probably the latter?

And to me, it seems like the main reasons she’s staying back are a mix of self-punishment for making everyone go through this, not having the heart to face everyone, and apparently taking responsibility by guiding future groups who might stumble into the 時の渦. (However she plans to accomplish that without Simon.)

I think she might also have a terminal disease, hence her wish (?) to start the 時の渦, but given how lively and happy she was on this looped day, it seems unlikely to rapidly deteriote and kill her so quickly that she can’t have any tomorrow. So I think when she says that she can’t/won’t have a tomorrow she means because of her decision to stay here. And I think that while her disease might play a part in not wanting to go back, it’s not one of the main reasons.

What I’m not quite clear on is why she thinks it’ll stay open after everybody left and swallow more people. Maybe Mia thinks or knows that this is a localized thing, and now that she opened it, it might swallow people around this area?

Although it’ll definitely stay open now that she’s staying back, right? So that a rescue effort can be mounted? Right? Right…?

They do probably have less than a day though, and that’s only if for whatever reason they are looped back to the beginning of the current day for one last time upon coming back…

Also, Simon, are you kidding me? As a leader, it’s not your job to go first through the gate, but to make sure that everyone makes it through, and to stay behind with anybody who can’t make it for whatever reason to help them find the next gate. Together with Tyler who’ll make sure people stay happy. I know that you would be up for that, Simon, so why would you decide to go first?

Questions

I’m not really sure what to make of that すら覚える. Is it something like “I feel strangely strongly about it (=leaving that day behind behind)”?

Another すら. “even such a feeling”? That sounds a bit wrong.

What’s that まえ?

Why are 流れよう/巻こう in volitional?

I don’t understand the second sentence. “Obviously, in the original world, there is nothing that is in this world!”?

…eh. Is the narrator saying that Tyler never had the experience of persuading someone in his whole life? (I feel like he has plenty of experience trying to persuade people that treasure hunting is great, at least?)

What’s the 下で?

MissDagger · May 5, 2023, 10:29pm

@TobiasW You are not allowed to leave me behind, so guess who started and finished this chapter tonight. xD

Anyway my chapter comments

Maybe it is because I had a break in the middle of this VN, well two breaks, but anyway. This should have been a chapter were I bawled my eyes out. Just cried and cried while Tyler tried to convince Mia to come with him.

If it isn’t obvious, I did not. Probably because they are in this loop and everything there was inconsequential, I haven’t gotten attached. I did mention a couple of chapters ago that we basically know nothing about any of the characters.

How am I supposed to care when all I have to hang my caring on are one dimensional character sketches? It was still a good chapter. I enjoyed it. But… I should have been bawling my eyes out, and I wasn’t.

For realz, I’m like the easiest to make cry while I’m reading anything sad. I refuse to watch sad movies (most of the time) because it’ll just end up with me crying and sniffling through the whole movie—not exactly a fun experience even if I end up loving the movie. Also potentially very annoying for whomever I’m watching it with, or you know when I’m dumb enough to watch it at the cinema.

Anyway…

This makes a whole lot of sense to me. I wouldn’t have considered that 探し女 could be looping from the future. Brilliant!

I do think Mia probably have a severe illness. Otherwise her staying behind really doesn’t make much sense.

And Simon going first makes sense to me. (I really liked his goof in the hospital, trying on Joe/Tyler and going nope, didn’t work. xD) The very word comes from the verb to lead, aka to be in front and showing the way. I feel like that is what Simon did this time.

Leaving Tyler and Mia for last though, perhaps not the best decision but despite them having hours and hours to decide on the order in which everyone would go, they didn’t. Which is probably the weirdest thing considering how organized and detail oriented Simon is. You failed me, dude…

Here is another point I don’t understand: how come no one talked with Mia, or kept cornering her when she was evasive with these things. She and Simon was close, but they have literally NEVER talked about what life was like outside the loop? Years and years they spent in there together, but never did Simon finally get Mia to tell him about her life before it?

That’s just a bit… off.

Also, @TobiasW I can answer one of your questions. The others I have zero idea about.

It is たまえ that connects with masu-form (without masu). Meaning “please X”, X being the verb. So in this case “Please contact me.” (I’m skipping the first part of that sentence because I’m not sure how to translate that.)

2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz · May 6, 2023, 1:06am

Did I mention my nemesis, さえ？ Well, meet her twin, すら, my other nemesis.
So, すら and さえ are actually interchangeable, except in one scenario (and this is not that scenario).

So, すら, like さえ, is often used to emphasize something that is unexpected. In this case, the unexpected thing is the 感慨. The next sentence explains why this is unexpected - even though they have repeated the same day to the point that would get anyone bored, he feels conflicted about the fact of the loop ending. The expected thing is to feel happy about leaving the loop - but no, very strangely he doesn’t feel that way.

Remember how we mentioned that one of the uses of さえ was to give an outstanding example of something? Here すら is performing the same function. It’s giving an outstanding example of the kind of feelings they have after realizing the end is coming - the feeling of “maybe there’s something left that I’d like to do?”. This implies that there are other (unmentioned) feelings of a similar kind involved.

This is a (fun?) grammar construct used to say "no matter if A or B … ". This can use either ようが or ようと.

Here’s an example from BunPro:

日本語の勉強は 難しかろうが易しかろうが、流暢に話せるようになるまで勉強する。
Whether learning Japanese is difficult or easy, I will learn until I become fluent.

So 時が流れようと渦を巻こうと would mean “no matter if time flows or loops”.

Yes, your translation is correct. Maybe rephrasing it to “Certainly, things that exists in this world (like immortality, or endless money to spend), none of them exist in the original world” makes it easier to understand?

Sorry, I don’t really know about this one. My intuition and context makes me think this means “He never in his life he had the experience of (wanting so much to / being so desperate to) convince someone”, but can’t really give an explanation of how we would grammatically reach such translation.

This is another (fun?) grammar construct that means “under (a situation or circumstance)” or “on the basis of”. Usually this is written の下で, but の can be omitted.

時間に急かされるような状況下でなど、猶更だ。 => “Even more so (猶更だ) when one is under (下で) the situation of being rushed by time”

TobiasW · May 9, 2023, 3:19pm

Thanks, that helps a lot!

Oh no, now there’s two of them…

I can really understand why さえ is giving you such a hard time. I’m just hoping that I will get accustomed to it sooner or later.

I’m not sure where one could get the “wanting so much to / being so desperate to” from, but I realized that it’s ことはない instead of ことがない, so I guess it might be something like “Never had the need to…”. Your translation sounds good and fits though.