ルーパーズ ♾ Chapter 15 (Visual Novel Book Club)

[Daisoujou]

Current chapter start date: October 28, 2022
Home thread: ルーパーズ ♾ (Visual Novel Book Club) // Currently Reading!

Previous part: Week 14

Next part: Week 16

We’re reading ルーパーズ as part of the Visual Novel Book Club!

As of the time of posting this, reading is scheduled for 1 chapter per week. But feel free to jump in and ask questions or give your thoughts later! There are always people watching these threads

Pace

The current chapter can be seen in the menu, and you’re encouraged to keep an eye on that if you wish to read at the club’s official pace! To make this easier, the following image also marks the end of the chapter. While the image may not necessarily be a meaningful spoiler, it’s collapsed by default as there’s no reason to immediately display the images to anyone who crosses through this thread. 用心するに越したことはない

Chapter End Image

Discussion Guidelines

• Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter(s) and any content in future chapters.
• When asking for help, do your best to provide context. Pasted text, screenshots, descriptions, etc. Unlike book clubs we can’t flip to relevant pages, so we may need a little help identifying exactly what is being discussed.
• Feel totally at ease to ask questions or give your thoughts, any time! Clubs live and die by participation, and asking whatever question you have, no matter how silly it may seem, helps others who are reading it and even the answerer themselves.
• Have fun, and do your best to interpret anything said with as much good faith as possible

Participants

• I’m reading along
• I have finished this part
• I’m still reading but haven’t reached this part yet
• I’m no longer reading

[2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz]

Chapter spoilers

Well, we finally get to understand how ミア became the 探し女. One thing I kept wondering, was if the 時の渦 was going to break down eventually at a set time inevitably, or if it was specifically because ミア had finally rejected the wish that had created the 時の渦 in the first place. I am currently leaning on the later theory.

During one of the previous chapters, when サイモン is thinking to himself about the things he wants to do once he leaves the 時の渦, he mentions something about finding out how to trigger one. Initially I thought things were going to go that route - that they’d find a way to get at least タイラ back into the loop and have him change things so that ミア would change her mind, but now that ミア has changed her mind by herself, and that her particular 時の渦 has collapsed, it seems unlikely.

My guesses so far are that the way to reach her will require some kind of interaction with the 探し女, though I am having a hard time imagining how exactly that would work. My other guess is that something akin to what happened when they saved レオナ will have to happen during a long process where タイラ interacts with the comatose ミア in the current world.

[Daisoujou]

Looks like this week is about 8,500 characters! I’ve found it pretty easy to read recently, not sure how much that’s thanks to the repetition in vocab and/or me getting better. I’ll take it though!

Spoilers

I rather liked this one! I think the 探し女 thing wrapped up relatively satisfyingly, and I’m kind of into how much of a misdirect her actual searching was, while those lines are still particularly desperate and emotional to feel worth having that sort of time lingering effect.

The world crumbling I also thought was a nice use of getting by with relatively little in assets to create something pretty impactful all the same. Some VNs are really good at that. Throw on some color filters, shake some things, make some sounds, it all landed surprisingly well in my opinion as an apocalypse. I think I’m particularly susceptible to large scale disaster stuff though.

I think those are really good guesses @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz . Personally my theory now is that there may still be a way for them to meet, not in the same 時の渦, but in some other space. Mia did seemingly get sucked into something. This is somewhat borrowing more from general VN tropes than the actual story, though considering that Mia seems to be only responsible for this one 時の渦 instance, and we know there were past ones, there may be some sort of larger space?

Not really about this chapter but still spoilers

It’s been on my mind, but it’s a shame that レオナ didn’t get more space to shine (and maybe more careful treatment) specifically because this author tends to be really good in his bigger works about how he handles really dark, sad experiences. People with trauma, abuse victims, etc. He was apparently previously a social worker and in my experience I’ve found him great at making three dimensional characters who are realistically scarred by their past but not tied down to just being a victim of that stuff.

[AzusaChan]

Chapter spoilers

This one was pretty good, I’m glad to finally see how the 探し女 began. One thing I’m slightly confused on is everyone left the loop but now as ミア is re-experiencing the same day, it is the events of the day they left. Every morning she gets the message from サイモン to meet in the park etc but I was kind of expecting that since they technically left the loop already, サイモン and the gang would return to whatever they were doing on 8/1 before entering the loop and have no knowledge of ミア. I believe they mentioned タイラ and the gang were a 残像, so was that just ミア unconsciously choosing to have them appear?
Although I’m not sure if they explain how the events pile up in the 時の渦. Before タイラ joined, he was chasing サイモン each day thinking he was a criminal but then I wonder what they were doing before even サイモン joined the loop Although there was that previous chapter where they visited that area where they did parkour during the chase and they saw like faint images of them.

Anyways, I’m excited to see how they end up solving this. Maybe タイラ will have an interaction with the 探し女 and realize its ミア and do something that frees her.

@Daisoujou

it’s a shame that レオナ didn’t get more space to shine (and maybe more careful treatment)

It definitely would have been nice if they could have fit in more screen time for her. Honestly, I don’t think the 3 side characters (ホリー, ジョウ and リタポン) added anything important to the game. I think if they took those three out to give the main cast more time it would have been a big improvement.

[2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz]

Chapter spoilers

@AzusaChan

One thing I’m slightly confused on is everyone left the loop but now as ミア is re-experiencing the same day, it is the events of the day they left. Every morning she gets the message from サイモン to meet in the park etc but I was kind of expecting that since they technically left the loop already, サイモン and the gang would return to whatever they were doing on 8/1 before entering the loop and have no knowledge of ミア. I believe they mentioned タイラ and the gang were a 残像, so was that just ミア unconsciously choosing to have them appear?

Yeah, I wasn’t sure on how that worked either. My impression is that after the loop “ends” with the gate closing, the remnants of the loop stay on the events of the last loop. The actions the characters took that last loop are actually permanent - like taking the two comatose others (カイ and the other whose name I forgot) out of the hospital (which they mention they now need to take back there afterwards). The loopers themselves start the new day at the park, not randomly teleported to wherever they would have been if they had taken their original actions before the 時の渦 began.

Regarding the 残像, I also wonder if this somehow could be happening in ミア’s subconscious. I guess the other option would be that they are like how ヒルダ encountered the after-images of when レオナ was starting to lose it, just before ヒルダ herself fell into the 時の渦. However, those occurences seemed to appear and disappear randomly, and didn’t seem like you could actually hold a conversation with them like ミア does here.

[ccookf]

spoilers

I was just expecting some time space fuckup after the loop was closed because of the 探し女 was an adult, but I didn’t consider that Mia would get stuck in a day watching her own friends escape. Even worse that they would try to reach out to her when she dipped. It was heartwrenching seeing them repeat the day like that again after the Hilda/Leona sequence.

And the second pillar/gateway… there was no way that was going to work out, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t hoping that Mia got a second chance to leave. Cohesion be damned, I just want Mia to be happy at this point. This chapter was awesome, but so painful to read for me.

@Daisoujou

The world crumbling I also thought was a nice use of getting by with relatively little in assets to create something pretty impactful all the same. Some VNs are really good at that. Throw on some color filters, shake some things, make some sounds, it all landed surprisingly well in my opinion as an apocalypse. I think I’m particularly susceptible to large scale disaster stuff though.

While simple, I get the feeling those changes still would have taken a good amount of time. That image of the city crosswalk area crumbling was really nice. That transition from color to grayscale… it was only half a second, but seeing it being an actual effect that spread out from the center rather than just plain filter or image replacement was freaking hot. They probably had a pool of assets to nab for those kinds of effects, but I know if I tried to make my own shaders for that I would probably end up spending a week or two getting things juuuuust right.

@2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz

The loopers themselves start the new day at the park, not randomly teleported to wherever they would have been if they had taken their original actions before the 時の渦 began.

This is what I was leaning on as well. They carried their memories through the loops where the morning ended up acting as a new “save point” so to speak. Once they crossed the gate and returned to the park that became their canonical story because no new information was being looped back to day start save. So Mia could interact with her friends as if they were the real deal, but none of the interactions would persist which she realized through the aishiteru sequence… I knew that was coming and it still hurt reading that. Authors are dicks

Only two more chapters to go, but I know I need to take a break and maybe slow down a bit. My comprehension is definitely kind garbage right now. Thankfully this whole thing is written in a way that’s super easy to understand or correct yourself if something doesn’t quite make sense.

[Sylph]

1h for this one. Kinda interesting to see ミア being the focus now, now I’m curious why the 探し女 seemed more focused on ヒルダ than タイラ at the start of the game.

[TobiasW]

Chapter notes

Whew, this definitely did not go the way I thought it would. I was expecting more of a “Mia repeats the day endlessly until she goes mad” scenario, although I forgot:

@ccookf

because of the 探し女 was an adult

So yeah, something else had to happen.

And I sorta expected that Tyler & co got thrown back to the start of the day for one last time, but in the real non-looping world, and that Mia would now be able to interact with them there.

That would’ve already been heart-wrenching enough, but her having to relive the previous looped day is worse somehow. Even if they are afterimages (which I really can’t see; didn’t everyone’s afterimage change their behaviour depending on Mia’s actions?), she forever either has the choice of playing along and watching them escape, or knowing that those afterimages that look like her close friends seem to be in pain because they can’t understand Mia’s behaviour.

Or I guess not, now that the universe’s energy saving mode has kicked in and the 時の渦 is uninstalling.

@ccookf

So Mia could interact with her friends as if they were the real deal, but none of the interactions would persist which she realized through the aishiteru sequence… I knew that was coming and it still hurt reading that. Authors are dicks

I mean I also knew it was coming, but… it felt like it was a bit out of character for Tyler too. Especially with the circumstances, and knowing that he loves her too.

---

I’ll post my questions later - I want to take another pass at solving some on my own, hopefully.

[TobiasW]

Questions

ミアは時の渦に囚われてからの日数を、正確に把握していなかった。
遥か……もう数十年が経過したような気すらしてくる。

Is that すら there even? “It even feels like multiple decades have already passed”? (And what’s the 遥か there?)

Mia: 「……そのくせ、一番探して欲しい宝物は、見付けてくれませんでした」
Hilda: 「え？」
Mia: 「っ？！ いえ、気にしないでください」
Mia: 「……わたしちょっとまだ、混乱しているのかもしれないです」
Hilda: 「………そう？」
（……わたしは何を言いたいの？）
（タイラに、わたしを選んで残って欲しかったの？）

Is that last sentence “Did I want Tyler to choose me and stay?”?

Mia is stumbling through the city after realizing that her wish changed, and she doesn’t want to remain in this world.
Mia: 「こんな世界を望んではいけなかったんだ……」

Is this “must not” in the past it “shouldn’t have”? “I shouldn’t have wished for this world”?

[MissDagger]

Nice to have story, but 150 look ups for one chapter is a lot. I feel like I’m back reading the opening of this.

Chapter comments

A friend coined the term reader cookie and anti-reader cookie. Basically tropes/stereotypes/themes/etc. you love reading about are reader cookies. Anti-reader cookies are basically pet peeves or more generally things you really hate when they come up in things you read.

And this story has a problem that romance fiction often have: if the characters would just talk to each other, there would be no story.

To be fair, that isn’t entirely true in this case, because if Mia had actually talked to Tyler or you know any of them over the YEARS she spent with some of them, things might have been different. I can see Tyler staying while the others leave. And there would still be a story potentially, because maybe the loop world would still become unstable.

But instead, the story currently feels contrived. It only works because Mia never ever opened up to anyone and they never over the years thought to ask why. Or to get out of their own misery long enough to badger Mia about it.

So I’m a bit disappointed with this chapter because I feel like it really hammered that home. Still gonna keep reading. I want a happy ending for Mia, after spending this much time reading this, I just want everyone to be happy. Although I might want it more for Tyler. Even though he’s as thin as a paper, at least he wasn’t plot-forced to never say a word about his existence outside the loop. (No, I’m not bitter, what do you mean? )

@ccookf

探し女 was an adult

Why do you say that? We assumed she was an adult. Which is not quite the same thing.

I actually went back and looked to see if I took a screenshot of 探し女 and I had. (Too lazy to get it from my Switch to the computer though). There is nothing in particular in her image that says she has to be an adult. At least not to my eyes. In fact, she looks a lot like a girl in a nightshirt (striped long shirt). Her face entirely in shadow and that long hair.

I think at first I thought she was an adult, but looking at the image now, I’d say it is the name more than anything that gives that impression. Which would be a pretty impressive red herring.

But I also back then started speculating it was Hilda, so I guess somewhere along the way I stopped thinking 探し女 had to be an adult, even before the story started hinting pretty clearly that it was gonna be Mia.

---

Anyway, moving on to the next to last chapter soon. So will have answers to more of my story questions soon!

---

@TobiasW

Is that last sentence “Did I want Tyler to choose me and stay?”?

That is how I read that too.

---

My grammar/word questions

それは、低い低い、彼方よりわずかに聞こえるような・・・大地が唸るような音・・・。
What does 彼方 mean in this sentence? I don’t understand at all what it is doing and より with it makes my understanding worse…

古いフィルムのようで、この世界から解放してくれるために現れたとは到底思えなかった。
The only part of this sentence I understand the meaning of is the first part (like an old movie). The rest of the sentence? I know or looked up all the words, but I don’t understand what they come together to mean.

[ccookf]

spoils

@MissDagger

@ccookf

探し女 was an adult

Why do you say that? We assumed she was an adult. Which is not quite the same thing.

She looked more adult-like to me at first and I didn’t want to buy into her being one of the characters at the time. I think part of that was also I had mistaken her outfit for normal clothes at the time which just wouldn’t be worn by the kids.

[MissDagger]

Spoiler reply

Ah yeah, I can understand that. Honestly, I think I was a little too freaked about her when she was around a lot early on (I’m not into horror ), so I don’t think I thought much about what she looked like beyond scary. Only when I started hearing similarities in the voice with Hilda’s, did I even consider anything more than “scary” about her. Although even back then I didn’t really think it was Hilda, would have been funny, but I didn’t truly think that would be it.

[TobiasW]

Answers

@MissDagger

それは、低い低い、彼方よりわずかに聞こえるような・・・大地が唸るような音・・・。
What does 彼方 mean in this sentence? I don’t understand at all what it is doing and より with it makes my understanding worse…

I took the as 彼方 as “that way / that direction / over there / yonder” and the より as “from / out of”. So, “far from over there / that direction”.

@MissDagger

古いフィルムのようで、この世界から解放してくれるために現れたとは到底思えなかった。
The only part of this sentence I understand the meaning of is the first part (like an old movie). The rest of the sentence? I know or looked up all the words, but I don’t understand what they come together to mean.

• この世界から解放してくれる: (Doing me the favor of) releasing me from this world
• ために: …for the purpose of…
• 現れた: appearing
• とは: quoting the previous sentence
• 到底: possibility
• 思えなかった: not appear likely.

So, a bit literally:

“Looking like from an old movie, the possiblity of it having the purpose of (doing me the favor of) releasing me from this world didn’t seem likely.”

[MissDagger]

Answer reply

@TobiasW

より as “from / out of”

より has that meaning too? Ah well, then it becomes a lot clearer. I don’t know why I haven’t considered より having more meanings than “than”.

@TobiasW

• この世界から解放してくれる: (Doing me the favor of) releasing me from this world
• ために: …for the purpose of…
• 現れた: appearing
• とは: quoting the previous sentence
• 到底: possibility
• 思えなかった: not appear likely.

So, a bit literally:

“Looking like from an old movie, the possiblity of it having the purpose of (doing me the favor of) releasing me from this world didn’t seem likely.”

“到底: possibility” I don’t think this is a definition for it; at least none of the dictionaries I just checked had that. Did you miss see “(cannot) possibly”? The “not at all” meaning would fit well with the negative 思える (which I didn’t realize had nothing to do with thinking ).

Thanks for breaking that down for me. Now I understand.

[TobiasW]

@MissDagger

“到底: possibility” I don’t think this is a definition for it; at least none of the dictionaries I just checked had that. Did you miss see “(cannot) possibly”? The “not at all” meaning would fit well with the negative 思える (which I didn’t realize had nothing to do with thinking ).

Yep, I meant “possibly”. So I guess “it didn’t possibly seem likely that…”.

[TobiasW]

@MissDagger

より has that meaning too? Ah well, then it becomes a lot clearer. I don’t know why I haven’t considered より having more meanings than “than”.

To be honest, I’m just going by the dictionary there, and by it making sense in the context of the sentence - I’m not sure I have ever seen it used that way. If it’s something else, hopefully someone will correct me

[MissDagger]

It sounds very plausible. I’m just kinda a bit mad at myself, because I didn’t even think to check if より had other definitions, and then the next ? sentence also had a word I didn’t think to check the definition of because I thought it was potential of 思う even if I couldn’t immediately think of what that would be/mean. Plus it was negative, plus the sentence had くれる in the middle, which is one of those things that make me throw my hands in the air and go “how am I supposed to figure this out?!?!”.

[TobiasW]

I went a similar way, but my last step was “throwing the sentence into DeepL”, and afterwards it started to make sense.

It’s not cheating if you learn something, right? Right?

[2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz]

@TobiasW

I’m not sure I have ever seen it used that way. If it’s something else, hopefully someone will correct me

@MissDagger

It sounds very plausible. I’m just kinda a bit mad at myself, because I didn’t even think to check if より had other definitions

@MissDagger: you’ll eventually run into this on the DoBJG, page 567:

より: a particle which indicates a set point in term of space or time.

When used specifically like that, より and から are interchangeable.

@TobiasW

ミアは時の渦に囚われてからの日数を、正確に把握していなかった。
遥か……もう数十年が経過したような気すらしてくる。

Is that すら there even? “It even feels like multiple decades have already passed”? (And what’s the 遥か there?)

Yes, I believe すら can be translated as “even” in that sentence.
遥か means “far away”, and can be used both in terms of space, or time, in this case it’s the latter. “Long ago… it even feels like several decades passed”

@TobiasW

Is that last sentence “Did I want Tyler to choose me and stay?”?

Yes, that’s how I understand it too.

@TobiasW

Mia is stumbling through the city after realizing that her wish changed, and she doesn’t want to remain in this world.
Mia: 「こんな世界を望んではいけなかったんだ……」

Is this “must not” in the past it “shouldn’t have”? “I shouldn’t have wished for this world”?

Exactly, yes. Literally “It was not good that I wished for this world”.

[MissDagger]

Thanks @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz!