よつばと! Vol 3 Discussion Thread (Yotsuba&! Reading Club)

The changes are still there in the doc history, so they can be recovered. Perhaps 15 or so rows were removed, which I assume were duplicate.

@Rowena: Can you elaborate on what else might be missing?

I can see arguments both ways. In terms of usability, repetition makes lookup easier. The extra step needed to look up via typed word (versus page number) can make a huge difference. However, repetition is more time-consuming for those putting the lists together.

In general, if content has been added, it would be better to leave it. There should be ways (such as conditional formatting) to hide duplicates without deleting rows.

Upon reflection, I am more upset about the attitude behind the changes than the changes themselves.

For those who do not need a resource to decide how it should be used by those who do need it is inconsiderate (literally - you did not consider how much more difficult you were making things).

While the doc changes can be reverted, the feeling that I’m nowhere near up to par will be sticking for some time to come, so I’ll follow Marcus’ lead and leave this thread to more capable readers.

Thanks to all for Vol. 2 - I learned a lot.

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That’s a shame. You’re always welcome to follow along. Otherwise, good luck with your studies!

Personally, I think it’s normal that everyone has different expectations on what a useful vocabulary list would be. It would have been amazing if we’d been perfectly in-sync on our first attempt.

Understandable, I did it thinking about the overall learning experience, repetition makes it easier not to try and learn stuff, just look at them every time it pops up; but I also understand that it makes the experience needlessly longer.

Of course everyone has different opinions about learning methods, but perhaps those who do not need to use those methods are more suited to guide their creation? In the end, like the others said, everything can be reverted and talked over to make sure everyone is on the same page.

To address this now that I’m at home, it’s “Dad said you shouldn’t smoke because it’s bad. But he also said he used to smoke a long time ago.” (やる = very casual する.) Think she’s definitely getting lost in ってs at the end there, though.

I’m so sorry to read that you are unhappy with how the vocab list is going @Rowena. In my short time on this forum you have been one of the nicest people (among many very nice people) I’ve met here. You’ve been very friendly and helpful towards me, and I thank you for it.

Another very nice person is @Kazzeon! Kazzeon has responded to literally every one of my questions and gone out of his way to explain things simply and clearly for me. He is a real star too.

And in the discussion here I can see both sides.

On the one hand, having the detailed reading list for vols 1 and 2 meant I could join in (reading Yotsuba really was punching above my weight), so I agree with you there Rowena.

On the other hand, I do wonder if Kazzeon is right, and seeing the same word translated over and over and over again actually prevents me from learning it!

My volumes of Yotsuba are delightfully messy! I’ve made notes on every page of (1) every vocab item on the list and then (2) all that I learnt in the discussions here. But the strange thing is, following the reading list, I’m still writing down the translation of everyday words that I’ve seen over and over again. That can’t be right, can it?

I had intended to stop reading Yotsuba for a while because (1) I’m tired of all the slang and contractions and need something a bit more suitable for my level and (2) I really must concentrate on getting ready for N5 on July 1st.

But then, you, Rowena, and @BobaGakusei, came up with this great idea of doing a vocab list for vol. 3 and that makes it possible for people like me to keep going with the series. What you are doing is a truly wonderful thing. But I do wonder if, as Kazzeon says, after going through vols 1 and 2, it might actually be time to cut a few items out, and the best way to do that is with repeated vocab.

I probably won’t be able to contribute much during vol.3 because of the need to study for N5, but having the vocab list does make it possible to follow along (because I really love this manga!) and I thank everyone for it.

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Personally, that is the part I struggle the most with. For an example I am totally pulling out of my butt, if the book says 見なくていなりません it does not help me to have “見る - to see” in the vocab list, but to show the word as conjugated in the text helps a lot. Just my 2 yens.

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Oh yes! You’re right there!

I’m pretty sure we don’t need です or か, unless it’s used strangely, but sometimes it is hard to tell what’s grammar and what’s vocab. Also, if I had to take a guess, I would think the example conjugation meant its opposite. It’s familiar enough to ring some bells, but not that I could read it without thinking really hard.

Whoa! I’ve been out of this for a while since I went ahead to finish volumes 2 and 3 on my own, but now that I’ve read all the volumes I have, I’m going back to re-read volume 2 with the help of the discussion thread. Kinda crazy how I finished volume 3 right around when you guys are starting it. Hopefully I can blast through volume 2 so I can actually join in with the discussion like I said I was going to months ago! It’s awesome to see everyone is still super excited to continue!

Oh! And while I’m here, I saw this on twitter the other day!

よつばと!Volume 14 is coming out April 28th!!!

Here’s the artwork for it:

The last volume was released back in 2015, so this is the first one in 3 years!

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That is brilliant! Oh, wouldn’t it be great if our group continues all the way to volume 14! I mean, there’s no reason why not! Thank you so much for posting this!

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Good to know. I don’t think I was particularly consistent and ended up doing a mix of:

  1. dictionary form verb
  2. dictionary form verb + Notes with the conjugated verb’s translation/meaning
  3. conjugated verb

For example, やってたっていってた on pg14 was kinda hefty, so that got an additional #3 entry.

I think the 2nd one is probably best since it has the most information, so I’ll aim for that from now on. There’s always the chance I get lazy and go for #1 or #3, but if that results in questions, at least we have this thread to ask.

EDIT: Oh right, about slang. It’ll come up a lot, so…

  1. Would you prefer that slang gets put into the Notes section with proper Japanese in the vocab kanji/kana sections?
  2. Or would you prefer “original text” in the kana section with additional Notes for the “proper” words?

Since things are already indexed by page number, I would lean for the former route, but please let me know what you prefer.

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Oh my goodness! I’m using the vocab list now and I’m noticing how good it is!

  1. Yes, not giving the translations for repeated items is better, it makes me reader closer. This is going to help a lot.
  2. I love the notes! And I noticed there are even links!
  3. But I am very nervous when using it. I copied something (to put into jisho for more info) and I’m afraid in case I might change the list. I don’t want to make any changes to it, just read it!

Oh, but thank you! How can I possibly stop reading Yotsuba now?

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You’re a total rock star!

As for slang, I like 2 better. It makes it a little easier to look up.

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@marcusp @Chellykins

It was a group effort! :slight_smile:

It doesn’t seem possible to open the spreadsheet in view-only mode. However, now that Chapter 15’s list is just about done, I protected the tab such that edits will warn.

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Oh, finally. Been waiting forever. I was even starting to worry that the English translator had simply dropped it like ADV did all those years ago.

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Yes, in this case I was thinking more along the lines of not having:
見る、見ろ、見て、見た and all the simple conjugations for the same verb, but the more complicated ones are needed to understand which word it is.

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I would agree the second option is better for looking up the words, and that it makes more sense having the notes say what it’s supposed to mean instead of the original text. :slight_smile:

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Page 5

Okay, Sunday morning, and here I am with the silly questions already!
But on page 5 the dad says:

なんだこれ?
よつばのズボン入ってたぞ

I’ve got everything except the last part.
The plain past form of 入る is 入った, the て-form is 入って, but what is 入ってた?

The same thing happens in Yotsuba’s reply, when she says わすれてた.
The plain past of 忘れる is 忘れた, the て-form is 忘れて, but what is 忘れてた?

(Often I work out the answer to a question just by composing it, but it hasn’t happened this time, I really am stumped!)

Thank you!

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It’s 入っていた. よつばのズボン入ってたぞ = “It was in (your) pants.”

Frequently in casual speech, the い is dropped from the ~ている ending. Fewer mouth flaps, basically.

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