ha i knew i’d get that wrong, the causative is still really difficult for me.
get’s even worse when i misunderstand and my mind starts filling in what I think the plot should be.
how do you know though in this case? and is the next page him saying he is giving her the win then?
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A snuck in an edit on my prior post that very lightly touches on this, but I'll write it out a bit more here.
(adjective)+思い+させる essentially means to cause someone to experience that adjective.
For example:
- 寂しい思いをさせる is to cause someone experience loneliness.
- 苦い思いをさせる is to cause someone to experience bitterness.
- つらい思いをさせる is to cause someone to experience pain (be in pain).
In this case, 恥ずかしい思いさせる is to cause someone to experience embarassment.
We can’t really tell what Tanaka is experiencing, because of his “poker face”. But we can see that Urushi in is an increasingly embarrassing position. The reason the position is embarrassing for her is because she’s so confident that Tanaka likes her, yet he won’t admit it. It’s his lack of admission that’s caused her to experience the embarrassment that’s written all over her face.
From context, I gather he reasons he can alleviate her embarrassment by confessing, letting her know that she was right about his feelings toward her. However, he has his pact with himself to confess his feelings when he wins a game of shogi against Urushi. Thus, he asks her to let him win.
That’s how I put it all together. I’ll admit that I’ve filled in bits and pieces that aren’t stated, but that I feel the context conveys this, supported by the dialogue that is there.
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awesome thanks, yeah it makes complete sense seeing that she’s the one acting embarassed, it’s good to know though that i don’t completely misunderstand how this works.
so im assuming it’s still correct that on the next page he wants her to let him win? but not to embarass her further, but to confess to make her less embarassed, but he will only confess if he wins, because (p9) “男として”
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Yup, you are correct.
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my bad, just noticed you already clarified that in your post lol, i get a bit overexcited when i start to reach actual understanding and just write faster than i think.
good to have you here with us again.
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That was my stealth edit that I put in while you were typing your initial reply. (Sorry!)
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I am not 100% sure about this, but my impression wasn’t that he asks her to let him win. させてもらう in this case is a very polite way to say that Ayumu is going to “take the liberty” of winning the game; he’s declaring that he’s going to take the victory. This is reinforced by his confident facial expression as he makes his move in that panel.
If he was asking for permission, I’d feel it would be more natural for him to say something along the lines of させてください, or maybe 勝ってもいいですか.
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I took it this way too, if it makes you feel any more confident about it.
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Good catch! もらう is still my kryptonite. So he’s essentially saying “With this move, I’ll win without fail”.
I’m still working out what Urushi placing the 角 back onto the board does against this. (I only started learning the rules to shogi an hour ago, so…)
For the curious, here are the game board moves on the comic pages.
- Page 3: move 47 (☗４六歩)
- Page 4, move 48 (☖２九飛成)
- Page 6: move 49 (☗４五歩)
- Pages 9 and 10: move 50 (☖１九龍)
- Page 10: move 51 (☗５五角打)
Edit: Here's my attempt at recreating the game listed at the end of the chapter.
http://kurifuri.com/files/wanikani/ayumu_shogi_chapter_1.webm
I don’t know how to get a video to show in a details tag, but following the link should play it.
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I also am struggling with that… I played against a computer on the easiest difficulty earlier today and got thoroughly trounced, so that’s how well my Shogi learning is going. 
I do think it could turn into a fun hobby, though. I loved playing chess through high school and college, so maybe I’ll pick this up and totally not use it to procrastinate on my reviews…
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I thought the causative form is either to make or to allow someone to do something, and てもらう is like trying to get someone to do you a favor. So why wouldn’t it be “let me win this game and then I’ll confess my feelings 
"
unless 
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Strap in, ready to prove myself as a true beginner by asking about the literal first words, haha.
So, I get that 強い is an adjective for skilled. And I’m assuming なって is te form of naru – Genki only presents te-iru but I can get the gist enough that it’s operating with きてる and I think the general point is something like “You’re getting better, but not good enough yet.” What I’m wondering about is the form 強い is taking, 強く plus… I assume は as a particle? I’ve found that ku makes them adverbial online but the particle still throws me off. I don’t think I’ve learned that yet unless something obvious is eluding me. I assume I’m following what’s going on, but if someone doesn’t mind holding my hand, I’m curious about the grammar rabbit hole. Cheers <3
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yeah not me getting totally sidetracked learning the rules of shogi…
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Yeah, same. I think it’s time for me to tackle the shogi minigame in the yakuza series to get a bit of understanding.
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I’ve been thinking the same! Love that series. I’ve always avoided that part of it though. Mahjong, on the other hand… gonna keep hiding from that one. I think Shogi looks fun, though.
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I only tried mahjong and hanafuda games so far, shogi always scared me.
But i think it should also be nice kanji practice to go around town and read the writings on the shops 
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させる
So, this is a new enough grammar point for me that I’m going to preface this that you should take it with a grain of salt. But my understanding sort of boils down to this.
We are looking at two grammar points mushed together.
させる + もらう.
させる can be for either permission (let someone do) or coercion (make someone do). It’s context dependent.
もらう is “have someone do something.”
Combined, I think they sorta take on a meaning wherein the speaker essentially gives themselves permission, from what I was reading earlier. I’ll edit this post when I find the link.
If i were to translate the sentence literally:
「この一局きっちり勝たせてもらいます」
“In this game, I will have you allow me to win!”
Which obviously is awkward in English. The spirit of the message would then become,
“I am going to win this game, no matter what!” …sorta.
I could be off-base, but that is what I got from it.
Editing to add: As @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz mentioned above, it’s also polite speech, so that interpretation is probably a bit on the rougher side. “I’ll take the liberty of winning, if you’ll allow it.” may be better? It’s difficult to map onto English.
Edit 2: After reading further into that link (I stopped at the initial explanation of what the combo meant, earlier), they do point out that the politeness can often be used to mask a “no matter what” type of feel, so I’m happier with that explanation than it him being super polite, given the context, especially with 「きっちり」being in the statement.
Found the link: https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/させてもらう.3790593/
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I knew this one would come up. It’s something I’m not too confident about, and it had to show up first thing in the manga.
Keeping my low confidence in mind, here’s how I understand it.
First, the なってきてる is a combination of なる (to become) + くる (to come), which in this usage has a sense of “the preceding action has been continuing to this point” + いる (to be), which in this usage has the sense of “is currently taking place”. All together, it’s along the lines of, “have been becoming”.
If you say 「強くなってきてる」, then 強い is directly modifying なる, telling us that what Tanaka has been becoming is better at shogi. (In general, 強い means “strong”, but in this context it’s referring to how good he is a the game.)
But what about if we add the topic-marking particle は into the mix?
「強くはなってきてる」
Rather than 強くmodifying なる, we’ve shifted 強く to the topic. And what follows a topic is a comment about the topic. On the topic of 「強く」, the comment 「なってきてる」 can be said.
Putting that into English (with the Japanese grammar): “On the topic of ‘better at shogi’, it can be said that you’ve been becoming.”
So, what’s the nuance of using は versus not using it? I figure it’s probably like the difference between, “Your skill is increasing” versus “Your skill, it is increasing.”
In the end, I think this is one of those areas where it's fine to get the gist of it for now. Read/watch enough material, and you will (eventually) encounter <adjective>く＋は again.
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Well, I finished reading it. Reading, in this context, meaning that all of the symbols on the pages were perceived by my eyeballs. Sort of a lovely tour of the chapter, sometimes stopping to go “oh I recognize that word!” and “I think I might have an idea of what conjugation is happening in that chunk of sounds!” Absolute beginner I am, it’s not far from what I expected, though even then it’s hard to not have at least a minor shock at just how hard reading can be even when given a list of practically every word used. Grammar is hard, yo, combined with hardcore conjugation and whatnot making you wonder what specific words are actually doing.
Nonetheless, the pictures are cool, I have a general idea of what happened if for no other reason than looking at the vocab list lets me piece together subjects, haha. Gonna take ChristopherFritz’s advice to heart and hang with it for a while, see what happens, while I keep an eye on what you all talk about. I’ll skim through it a few more times too, maybe have a eureka moment or think of other concrete things to ask, who knows. がんばれ and all that.
Edit: Oh, and I posted this at basically the same time as that response to me, but thanks a lot! That’s a lot to take in, but very helpful!
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For that specific bit, don’t worry if it doesn’t make much sense. Aside from me being a bit loose on an explanation, it’s also usage that I almost never encounter. That may mean it’s not super common (or maybe not just in what I read/watch).
I don’t recall what you may have said about your current background in grammar (if any), but one area I recommend paying attention to is particles. You’ll want to get to know the following:
- は (marks the topic being commented on; this one can take a long time to get to know well)
- が (marks the subject)
- を (marks the object)
- に (marks what the action is done toward)
- で (marks what an action is done with)
Note that there’s more nuance to these, but looking at sentences, finding these in sentences and thinking about what they bring to the sentence can help arrange those words into meanings. (But it still takes time and exposure to many sentences!)
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