こんにちはみんなさん, how’s everyone doing? I’d like some help please concerning あげる, もらう and くれる. Most of the times I didn’t have any problem understanding the meaning behind each verb and it’s use. But lately, for some reason, I keep on confusing them. Can anyone lend a hand in understanding the situation here please?
あげる is from the speaker outwards - you’re doing something for someone
くれる is from outwards toward the speaker, initiated by the other party - someone’s doing something for you
もらう is from outwards toward the speaker, initiated by the speaker - you’re having someone do something for you
払ってあげる - I’ll pay the bill
払ってくれる - you pay the bill for me (as a favour or whatever)
払ってもらう - I have you pay the bill (because I forgot my wallet or whatever)
Literally it utilizes the permissive usage of the causative. As in, to let something happen rather than to necessarily cause it directly like the name “causative” might incorrectly make you think. So in this case, you’ll saying ill have (もらう) you let me (causative) come in. In this case, あがる just means entering so 部屋にあがる is to enter a room or apartment in this case.
Naturally…hmm I hate translating stuff but I guess the most natural sounding thing to say that gets the same feel across might be “I’ll head on in for a bit” as opposed to “I’m coming in for a bit” to maybe make it a bit softer?
we kinda do the same thing in english to some extent. Like if I say “allow me to demonstrate” im really saying “I’ll show you” but in a more roundabout way I guess and im not actually asking for your permission.
No problem! Its a very common one, but it can be tricky if you’re not prepared.
So it’s basically the same as just saying ちょっと上がるぞ but you’re making it more polite by essentially phrasing it as if you’re asking the other party to let you come in. Quite a natural construction when you think about it like that.
Yep exactly. Its not actually limited to polite contexts despite that being the actual function of the construction, but its not like thats something unique to japanese. In fact, its often used in more sarcastic ways too.
Just to add, くれる tends to have a connotation of gratefulness baked into it. Sometimes it gets used sarcastically, but putting that aside, if someone does something nice for you, this is the word you’ll use to talk about it and/or thank them.
“Thank you for teaching me / explaining (that) to me.”
Side note, when it comes to あげる and くれる, the speaker doesn’t have to be involved in the exchange. More generally, あげる is giving from someone close to you to someone less close to you, while くれる is the reverse.
weird, I’m usually very careful when I make flashcards, I copy/paste straight from the source most of the time. My flashcard says “it’s acceptable to use くれる and もらう when a transaction takes place between two people other than yourself in contexts in which you think you yourself have benefited because somebody very close to you has received something (for example, a member of your immediate family or a very good friend) → you identify more closely with the recipient than with the giver”
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this. Does Genki II explicitly say it works like that only with くれる?
Sounds similar to English, using polite constructs to be sarcastic/mocking isn’t a strange concept (well excuuuuuse me, Princess!)
Yes, I worded that confusingly I think - the speaker is not the key part, it’s having someone else do something, you can use もらう to express that someone else has another party do something as well (at least, I’ve seen it worded that way: メアリはトムから払ってもらった - Mary had Tom pay the bill)
To clarify, as I understand, もらう is from the perspective of the receiver, not the speaker per se.