(I’m split between Campfire and Japanese category, but this thing seems like a human interaction issue more than Language so Campfire it is.)
TLDR: How do you know when to switch from formal（です・ます） to casual（タメ口）?
I met this girl on a dating app, we messaged back and forth for about a month before the first date. After that we’ve been messaging for about another month now.
Until now, we’ve been using almost exclusively the formal form with some exceptions like self-talking expressions. At first she used a bit more formal form like お会います・お話 but now she dropped it and use just です・ます when texting (well, most of our conversation is in text anyway) But on the date, she mixed some Kansai ben in it, and it was cute af.
I think she use formal form to not seems rude to a gaijin? I met my barber about 3 days after moving to Kyoto and we almost speak in Tameguchi immediately, and had some University friends from Tokyo whom also use Tameguchi right away but maybe the social settings has heavy impact on this.
We have 2 dates scheduled up in Jun and July so I think she doesn’t hate my guts at least but I really wish that we could drop the formal and speak a bit more casually.
Is it okay for me to ask her to drop the formality first or is it to invasive?
Is it fine for me to ask her to use my real name instead of my nickname and drop the -san or is it still too soon?
7 Likes
I’m actually back dating so this is a very timely thread.
I speak in タメ口 with all the people I’m currently going on dates with/talking to. One, she was younger than me and she asked right away if it’s OK if we speak without keigo. The other three I asked a few messages into our conversation and they were happy to do so.
I also tell them right away what my real (first name) is right off the bat and they have always told me theirs equally fast or when we exchange LINE a couple days later. The person I went on a date yesterday with had the timeline look something like
Match before bed → 3 messages later no keigo → 60 messages / 1 hour later exchange line → next day plan a date → next day go on said date
So there are definitely people out there who move at a much faster pace. I personally would ask to not use keigo anymore and just pull the gaijin card a bit and be like
アメリカ人だからタイミングよく分からないんですけど、もしよかったら敬語やめて話しませんか？
I’ve used dating apps in the past and all the people I ended up dating with or becoming exclusive with all stopped keigo way before the first date.
But…its worth noting that there is probably selection bias going on. I tend to prefer a bit more…unique women who don’t fit Japan’s typical image to say the least. I do sometimes see profiles where people say they want to keep using formal Japanese and all that. It’s just that I tend to not be interested in them so we never match. So if your partner rejects your request and says she wants to continue in formal Japanese, I wouldn’t think too much about it or compare yourself to other people who don’t speak in keigo with their dates. It’s possible you just found someone who has that set of values and so long as you like everything else about her I’d say there’s no problem
EDIT: I would switch this to the Japanese language category. It’s a pretty relevant language/culture question and there are people who mute the campfire category who might be interested in answering
8 Likes
I’ve bolded some words here and also cut this down but, usually men talking to other men in the same age range, or older men talking to younger men, especially in a friendly profession such as a barber would definitely talk in ため口 a lot faster than a woman who is interested in dating you and doesn’t want to appear rude. I don’t think it has much to do with being a foreigner and more so you’re both looking for partners in a romantic sense. If you really liked someone, and they were put off by you being too friendly too fast you’d 遠慮 a bit too, as you are now 
Thinking back to when my boyfriend and I first matched online, when we stopped it was a message from him saying “You don’t have to add さん to my name because if you speak English that must be kind of strange for you.” or something like that, to which I said “oh no, are you sure? It’s a little odd to use です、ます and not さん” which he said, let’s just drop that all together unless you want to keep using it?" This was after our first date, about the next day or so. we matched, talked for a month, had a phone call the week before we were going to go on a date and then officially started dating on the third date (which took two weeks after the first date) and have been together for 3 years 
It’s about the communication, and I think it’s worth a shot just like, すみませんが、です・ますじゃなくてため口で話してもいいですよ。Like give a permission thing or 話してもいいですか？ as a question. You could also add, “I want to know you better, so if it’s alright with you, let’s speak a bit more casually.” But I don’t really have confidence to translate this sentence into Japanese perfectly. I’m not looking to get my grammar checked rn 
2 Likes
Thanks for your insights, its really helpful to have a different view.
Also, both me and her are super introverted and shy so comparing to a normal relationship would be unfair ain’t it. I’ll try to read the mood more to see if its alright. Being a normal functioning human being is hard…
I’ve switched to Japanese Language as you suggested.
2 Likes
Thanks for your input. I’ll try to see if its possible on the next date.
And the dating game for me is a bit weird since I have 土日 off but she doesn’t so its like a date planning simulator now. The second date is over 1 month after the first one, and the third is 2 weeks after the second so it hasn’t been very active, but I have good feeling about this specimen.
2 Likes
Welcome to dating in Japan 
Date simulator is a pretty apt description of it. Thankfully my boyfriend and I have weekends off which is how we were able to establish things quite quickly. The fact that you are able to have two more dates properly scheduled out says a lot about how she feels about you too! I know many of my friends here would go on one date, and then instead of actually following through on making the scheduled days, the person they were interested in would say, Oh I’m too busy this month, maybe next month? and the timing would come and then be busy again. It’s a hurdle to get in there and actually say, Yeah, no, let’s schedule this out and to have it reciprocated.
I wish you the best of luck!!
2 Likes
My general suggestion would be, especially as a foreigner, I think it should be safe to at least nicely propose the idea of talking with tameguchi. If anything, it would be quite the red flag if merely suggesting it was problematic haha.
What some Japanese people will do is actually start to mix the two, but I’m not sure if you feel confident enough in your ability to do so well.
4 Likes
Just an update on the situation:
・The date went super great
・I noticed me and her started to mix in a lot of casual form, I just couldn’t see it when texting
・I asked her to use my real name, drop the -san and ask if its okay to switch to Tameguchi and she was thrilled to hear that.
I think when talking people tent to stay with their feeling and instinct more (since there is no double check before sending) so listening is a good index to assert the situation.
In conclusion (and in my opinion), you should switch, or ask to switch when:
・Your partner started to mix in a good amount of casual form (I think we went about 30-40%)
・Their tone is more relaxed (e.g. the talking speed increases, they voice their thoughts out loud/use the speaking-to-self expression more often)
・There is a change in way of speaking (This is heavily biased towards my experience, but normally when people are quiet and suddenly change to a louder tone or normally speak in high volume and have clear pronunciation but suddenly change to a softer and devoicing more, that is when people feel safe towards their partner)
9 Likes