πŸ‘» Week 4 10εˆ†γ§γ‚ˆγ‚γ‚‹γ“γ‚γ„θ©±γƒ»10 minute Scary Stories (Absolute Beginner Book Club)

I already read your translation before I wrote what I still don’t understand.

This might be a nitpicky point, but you’ve commented before that you go by gut feeling when choosing は vs が (and many people struggle with this), so I thought it might be worth weighing in here: I think this is a perfect example of where が would be more appropriate than は.
Using は would be more appropriate, e.g., in the following scenario:
ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•γΎγ―ε­¦ζ ‘γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸγ‹γ€‚
γ„γ„γˆγ€ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•γΎγ―γγ€γ‚„γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸγ€‚

As for the princess, did she go to school?
No, as for the princess, she went to the shoe store.

Though, as you noted, in such a case ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•まは would probably be omitted in the answer, as the topic would already be understood from the question.
γ‚«γƒ¬γƒ³γ―γ€γγ€γ‚„γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸγ‹οΌŸ
γ„γ„γˆγ€ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•γΎγŒγγ€γ‚„γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸγ€‚

As for Karen, did she go to the shoe store?
No, it was the princess who went to the shoe store.

Here, が makes ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•ま the subject, rather than the topic, thereby stressing that the princess is the new information in the sentence. This is the piece of the sentence that answers the question.

Awesome job on all the translations!

It’s definitely fine to move away from doing them if they’re taking too much time or are no longer helping.

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Well, my breakdown wasn’t about は versus が, it was about whether the subject (or topic) can be left out of a sentence. The answer is yes, the subject (or topic) can be left out of a sentence if it’s understood. So really, that’s all I was trying to say with that explanation.

は versus が digression

:thinking: To be honest, I don’t really see why my example would be incorrect. Yes, が is a subject marker, but は can also be a subject marker, in cases where the subject and topic are the same.

From the dictionary of basic Japanese grammar:


In this exchange a new person (topic) entering the exchange is marked with は every time. Also, in my exchange, the princess being introduced is in contrast with the first sentence, so I felt that it was in line with the contrastive usage of は

ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•γΎγ―γγ€γ‚„γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸγ€‚
(I don’t know about Karen, but) the princess went to the shoe store.

In any case, I may be wrong about the details of は vs が usage, which is fine, but I don’t think that discussing it at length is always the best idea for beginners, who are still deciphering sentences on a basic level. So I would rather keep the discussion focused on the grammar in the book.

Edit:

:thinking: :thinking: As much as I think は vs が is outside of the scope of this book club, you got me thinking about this hahah :joy: I asked a much more advanced learner and she said that が sounds more natural in the second sentence.

Reasoning:

The actual information of the second sentence is like γ„γ„γˆγ€οΌˆγ‚«γƒ¬γƒ³γ˜γ‚ƒγͺγγ¦οΌ‰ηŽ‹ε₯³γ•γΎγŒγγ€γ‚„γ«θ‘ŒγγΎγ—γŸ

But if the first sentence was not there and Karen and ηŽ‹ε₯³γ‘ゃん are sitting next to each other and you say ηŽ‹ε₯³γ‘ゃんは then it is contrasting

So @Wait gets the は vs が crown :crown: but from now on I probably won’t digress about this more in this club since I don’t think it’s necessarily the most important thing to focus on for beginners.

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And week 5’s thread is up!

My intent was to be helpful, not critical! I’m too much of a beginner to suggest that your example was incorrect; I just thought, based on the sources I’ve read, that が seemed more natural, so I thought I’d open that point for discussion, in case it helped any beginners who might be trying to figure out what the difference is (or in case I was wrong and needed someone more advanced to correct me!).
I’ll stick more to the grammar of the book going forward.
Thanks for posting your helpful explanation of when the topic can be omitted! I sincerely appreciate all your input on this thread.

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I am so so late, but my goal is now to finish this book and keep a page a day regardless of club, so I will keep up

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For me, it takes me around 1/2hours to translate everything, not using any translation device but looking up words as I need to, and starting from scratch grammar wise. It definitely doesnt feel like leisure :laughing:

It’s totally fine to keep working at your own pace instead of keeping up with the club’s pace! :slightly_smiling_face:

To be honest, i have had a hard time motivating myself to read lately, since the exercice is a bit β€œbrutal”. But I will keep up :). Maybe make things easier by translating more straightforward way (tolerate ambiguity)

And no worries! :slightly_smiling_face: Just want to make sure the club stays on track.

If you really want to read more about particles, it seems like the book β€œAll About Particles” by Naoko Chino is a good reference, and has a large section on γ―γƒ»γŒ

Hmm, I’d say try not to overwhelm yourself. You could even cut down to reading/translating one sentence a day, instead of one page, and study grammar alongside. Your speed/ease of reading will naturally improve over time, as long as you’re doing a little every day.

It sounds good to me too, but I fear motivation would go down if I am not at least close to your guys pace. To me, for absolute beginners, I feel (it’s just a feedback) that maybe it’s a bit too quick pace (almost 2 pages a day to be on track). I will figure it out, thank you for help :D. I will keep posting here daily regardless. Less but still regular reading and more grammar could sound good

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Oh so it is the " β€œOnce X happens, Y happens.” In terms of showing a sequence of actions, this works similar to て form for linking actions, but と emphasizes the immediacy." ? Like she arrived in store, and immediately this happened ?

Page 35 Sentence 3

γΏγ¦γ„γ‚‹γ†γ‘γ«γ“γ“γ‚γŒγ‚€γšγ‚€γšγ—γ¦γγ¦γ€γŠγ‚‚γ‚γšγγ€γ‚’ζ‰‹γ«γ¨γ‚ŠγΎγ—γŸ

Thanks for this, especially the grammar point.

I have a question regarding this sentence. Is きて here to come (ζ₯γ‚‹) or to wear (着る)?
I’m tempted to translate this as:
While looking (at them), her heart yearned to wear (them) and without thinking, she took the shoes in her hands.

But I’m not sure that γ‚€γšγ‚€γšγ—γ¦η€γ¦ could have this meaning. I know ζ₯γ‚‹ can have a special function when attaching to other て form verbs, so maybe that’s what’s happening here? In that case, I guess I’d stick closer to darkR4bbit’s translation:
While looking (at them), her heart came to yearn and without thinking, she took the shoes in her hands.
Can anyone provide clarification/confirmation here?

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page 35 sentence 3

It is てくる (ζ₯γ‚‹)

β€œTo yearn to wear” would have to be a different construction altogether.

Also note that in this sentence

γΏγ¦γ„γ‚‹γ†γ‘γ«γ“γ“γ‚γŒγ‚€γšγ‚€γšγ—γ¦γγ¦

β€œthe shoes” don’t come up at all, so the action isn’t describing wearing- γ‚€γšγ‚€γšγ—γ¦ is describing the β€œaction” of her heart (it’s yearning/itching) , and てくる modifies the action ( of γ‚€γšγ‚€γšγ—γ¦γ„γ‚‹ )

Edit, also you ε±₯く shoes you don’t 着る them so there’s that too

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