Interested in anyone’s experience or suggestions about using Wanikani more formally (in a class, rather than self-study).
I study Wanikani in a formal classroom setting, where we have convinced our teachers to let us use Wanikani instead of the paper texts (we were using Bonjinsha’s Basic Kanji Book, and the Kanji back pages of Japan Times Genki. However, it is difficult for the teachers to incorporate our Wanikani progress into the class.
Here are some ideas that I think would make Wanikani much better in a classroom:
I would love to use the context sentences and even common word combinations for sessions of reading practice. They are perfect because they only use known kanji. I would love to be able to generate pages of reading practice from the context sentences and common word combinations. Now, I can only do that by clicking page by page on each individual kanji.
It would be very helpful to be able to generate lists of all kanji and vocabulary known so far (for an individual), or, at least by level (to be used by a group, for example). Our teacher could then incorporate that kanji and vocabulary into dialog, grammar lessons, and daily use.
I think that with these and other suggestions (what are yours?), Wanikani might become widely adopted as a part of more formal classes in place of the several popular traditional kanji learning textbooks. I find that those texts are difficult to learn from (usually no mnemonics or system) --but-- the big advantage is having reading material that uses just the kanji learned so far.
(side note)
Recollection vs. Recognition
I use Ringotan to help me improve my recollection (being able to create a kanji from an idea). Wanikani seems to mostly improve my recognition (recognizing the reading and meaning of a kanji).
I think the wanikani content would be an excellent staged approach to teaching kanji in a group. My concerns would be:
Copyright. The mnemonics, choices of level groupings, vocabulary pairings, etc ARE what WaniKani IS (the SRS app is just the delivery method) and you’d be using it without a license. Would everyone in the class sign up for WaniKani (and pay for levels past 3?)
The SRS wouldn’t work AT ALL. People would be in all kinds of not-matching states of passing/failing/guru-ing or not/unlocking the next level or not…
Edit:
mmm… I would validate that assumption. It’s a common complaint that the example sentences are too hard in grammar and vocabulary for the early beginner, I don’t know if that’s true for the (non-subject of the lesson) kanji as well.
WaniKani also doesn’t exactly sort the kanji by order of usefulness, like a textbook intended for classes would be - it takes until level 21, almost half a year at maximum speed, before you’ve learnt 80% of the top 20% most-frequently used kanji (though granted that’s still 72 kanji more than you learn from two volumes of Genki). WK is more intended for people who are planning to Learn All The Things! rather than people who are, say, studying to pass a class exam.
I think if your classmates can have a level up timeline and the teachers have a list of the vocab and kanji used up to a previous level, they could incorporate those kanji in and make a type of test or documents for it. This also depends on if this is for a college course or high school course. I would Hope… College as then asking students to pay for a subscription based service such as WaniKani would be less of a financial burden and also the parents’ consent wouldn’t be as necessary.
However, I also agree with the concerns laid out here
and here
I think wanikani is great for those who want to do the extra work outside of class, but as a teacher trying to teach a second language effectively, wanikani is Not the thing I would want to replace the textbooks. When I studied Japanese in college, there were kanji tests that required reading and writing kanji. This was invaluable to me even if I cannot remember ever kanji that I had to write. The speed we went at was also intense as we were learning around 40-50 kanji every 2 weeks. Wanikani would not even come close to that as the SRS is very individual based timing and famously “slow in the beginning”, plus no organization for words that would make sense to be taught together. Textbooks teach the chapter kanji and words that you will 100% run into in that upcoming lesson, and through using the kanji in the right context, that is how you remember it. Yeah, it doesn’t have the funny mnemonics, and no SRS, but it’s also important to be able to study something without those, especially if it’s going for an actual grade that goes towards a degree.
I think it’s great your teacher is open to trying it out, but I wonder how long that kanji style can last in a formal educational environment. I am quite curious how it will play out going forward though.
I guess I’m curious how this works. Are userscripts cheating? Is the intention that everyone levels up every 7 or 8 days? Is the goal something like “you have to reach level 10 in 3 months?” What happens if someone takes a little longer because they get a critical level up kanji/radical incorrect or they’re lazy with “homework” one night and don’t do SRS?
Some wanikani context sentences even include kanji that aren’t on wanikani though. The early levels had sentences rewritten to have low level grammar and basic vocab, but they do get harder over time. Sometimes they include kanji that I’ve seen before, but they combine them into a word I’ve never seen (and that word isn’t on wanikani).
I went to the filter for levels 1-10 and just highlighted level 1 and copy/pasted them. Sure it'll take a little bit of formatting to get a nice list, but everyone has their own way they want to format things
Hi, I appreciated seeing everyone’s comments. I can clarify the context of my question a little:
I am in a long-term professional course (for adults) with the goal of achieving a high level of professional competency by the end, roughly JPLT N2 - N1 level.
As I understand it, Wanikani is also geared towards this, rather than achieving basic skills early like in an intro college course.
The course pays for all materials, including Wanikani for all students who choose to use it. The school would certainly license any appropriate materials (texts and materials are a tiny fraction of the cost of the instructors and facilities).
I should not have used the word “perfect” for the context sentences. Currently, in our reading practice, we use a variety of materials including Genki, Quartet, and Basic Kanji Book readings, plus authentic materials. Those often include numerous kanji that I have not learned yet. That’s a valuable skill, but I also like to be able to practice being smooth in reading (and reading aloud) passages where I know all the kanji without stopping to look something up or add furigana. For example, the Genki reading passages are designed exactly for this (within the Genki kanji learning syllabus of course).
I am glad to see an update about more information regarding the course. I am glad it’s not a high school course tbh
How many people are in the class? That sounds so expensive, even if it was monthly payments etc still but I guess courses have that money?
I would agree that Wanikani is geared towards higher learners… when it’s the higher levels that is… The beginning levels are notoriously slow for those who already know the “beginner” kanji, and it’s also based on SRS (spaced repetitive system) timing and relies on making mistakes. I had a very easy time rushing through the first 10 levels or so, but once I hit the 20’s it got harder and my level up took weeks instead of 1, and now in the 40’s it’s taking almost a month per level. As the levels increased in difficulty, it took me a lot more time to get through them. I don’t have the heatmap script but I do know it has taken me almost 3 years to get to the level I am at now.
I am curious how the personalized timing of SRS will work with the course if the school is paying for it, as if it’s monthly payments, or just a straight up lifetime payment all at once. Thinking as a teacher, it is hard to time several students, even if you all have similar backgrounds in Japanese, because the level up mechanic requires almost all of the kanji from one level to be guru’d and then you can move on, if there are just 3-4 kanji that you haven’t been able to get down, or just one student in the class, that last apprentice level to get to guru takes 2 days every time of SRS, and if you keep making a mistake those days add up.
Also a big factor I think that could be problematic with wanikani is that it only focuses on kanji recognition, there is no recall unless you combine it with something like kaniwani and even then it’s hard with all the synonyms used in meanings. Plus, not all of the 常用漢字 are on here. There are even kanji that are not on that list (I know there’s actually a thread asking for 5-10 more levels of wanikani to be added just to catch those joyo kanji that aren’t already here).
Not that Wanikani is a “bad” study site, it’s great! I just don’t know how it would be used in a classroom unless it would be something of an extra credit type of outside of class, or just making goals be something like, keep a 0/0 streak or doing daily reviews. Almost everything would eventually end up personalized per student which depending on the class size, might be doable, but in the end I can’t see it being more than a self-study site rather than classroom style.
I think you’d have to ditch the SRS mechanism and just print the item pages with the mnemonics and assign them as homework on a schedule. That way you could keep in sync and do group quizzes, etc. traditional classroom style. That also works around the ‘first 10 levels are too slow and basic’ problem - do two levels at once. Do a level every 3 or 4 days. Something like that.
Sounds like an interesting experiment, in any case. Let us know how it turns out if you do it!
This is pretty much what I was asking about -
A pdf of each level to stay on track in class, and then students attack the SRS on their on.
My question for everyone that says this won’t work is, then, do you recommend using a “traditional” Kanji book (like Baic Kanji Book or Remembering the Kanji) in class, and going through the entirely different Wanikani program separately?
If you believe that Wanikani is a great system for learning, then doing this sounds so unproductive.
I found a spreadsheet of all the context sentences by level!
We printed out separate lists of:
a. All WaniKani kanji by level,
b. All WaniKani vocabulary by level
c. All WK context sentences by level (yes, several hundred pages for just 10 levels)
FYI, the various classes use Genki, Quartet, and/or Tobira. Obviously, there is always a mismatch between someone’s WaniKani level and the current lesson in the text. But it’s not bad, and the end result is that most students clearly retain WaniKani kanji, while recognizing (and often soon forgetting) the other kanji. It’s going well.
Teachers give regular quizzes based on WK level (using the provided lists above), as well as the normal reading tests based on the texts. There is an expectation of progress in WK.
Again, this is not a high school or college course. This is a corporate / government immersion course (6hrs/ day) with generally one to six students per instructor. Students are expected to pass a proficiency exam at the end at approximately the JLPT N2-N1 level, and then go on to key professional role in the host nation (Japan in this case).