Tobira study group - chapter 1

Awesome!

Okay, here are my answers to Chapter 1, part 1 in the grammar book.

1: の;で。2:X;で。3:X;が。4:X;が;に。5:と;の。6:と;と;X。7:X;も。

Part 2-a:

1:で。2:に・から (couldn’t decide!!)。3:で。4:で。5:が。6:を。7:が。

Honestly, just like @sergiop I really struggled with these! I have no hopes that I got them all right, I just hope for more than 50% :rofl:

In case you don’t know, the grammar book has all the answers in the back :wink:

Looks like you got most of them right!

I didn’t know, but it’s good to know for when the book arrives! It’s coming all the way from Japan. Hopefully it’ll be here by Wednesday next week :blush:

OK! Then I’ll check you answers for you.

Chapter 1, part 1:

In number 4, the middle one should be か, not が. The rest is correct.

Part 2/a

1)で 2)に 3)に 4)から 5) が 6)が 7)が
2 should be に

Thank you, @Marifly, really appreciated!

I’m amazed I only got one wrong in the first lot, not surprised at all by the second lot. I really struggled with those. And I nearly put が for the last three but then thought it couldn’t possibly be three in a row all the same! :joy:

Oh my word, yes, yes it was. Listening and speaking is by far my biggest weakness, so I’ve put off even listening to the audio files… I haven’t attempted reading aloud, yet. Certainly not at that speed anyway! :joy:

Intimidated. Very, very intimidated.

Page 17, in the grammar explanation section, there’s an example sentence, number 3, regarding the adjective-stem + さ grammar point. The sentence is this:

『この話のよさが分からない人いないと思います。』

Am I correct in translating this “I think there isn’t a person who doesn’t know a good story.”? Or a more natural translation in my mind would be “I don’t think there is anyone who doesn’t know a good story”.

Either way, I know that the adj-stem+さ should turn the adj into a noun, but my translation still has it as an adjective. I can’t for the life of me work how to turn “good” into a noun. Goodness? It doesn’t feel like it fits…

As it is talking about この話, I would rather translate it as “I think there is no person who doesn’t understand that this story is good.”

Now, regarding the noun: first of all of course it’s a fact that different languages express things differently, so there might not always be the exact equivalent in the other language. In this case, “goodness” might work (but I think it’s not that common in English? Not a native speaker so my apologies) or if you want to modify it a bit, “quality” might also work.

You’d think I wouldn’t have missed the first very word! :joy: Thank you @NicoleIsEnough for catching that.

I’m inclined to agree that there’s no easy, clearly defined translation for “good” into a noun.

I had trouble with the three practice questions that included good from adjective to noun - something I think (!!) I’ve worked out correctly but wasn’t pointed out in the Tobira main book was that the way to know if its supposed to be いい or よさ was to look at the what the word is attaching to. If its a possessive の, then it’s definitely よさ. Anything else I translated as いい.

Yep, exactly that. の can only connect two nouns, that’s why you need the conversion for いい in that case.

Everyone ready and excited for next week??

I’m trying to write out 3 example sentences for each grammer point. It’s taking me so long, but I should be finished in time for chapter 2.

Starting a little late due to laziness, but I’ve gotten through the first reading of 日本の地理 twice while taking notes and writing my answers down on a separate notebook. It’s a lot of work and I do not think my grammar is high enough to understand the text in it’s entirety (hopefully that problem will sort itself out later in the chapter as I’ve been through GENKI I and II already, though that was years ago), but with context clues, I could generally figure out their meaning. The conversations look harder and I’ll need to buy a CD drive for my laptop so I can practice listening.

This is super useful information!

Yes! I’m midway with the grammar exercises this week and next week, we are having final exams so I’m a bit slow but hope to pick up the pace.

Hello!

If the context and grammar structures look a bit difficult, you can try and have a look through the vocabulary list and grammar points of the chapter before diving into the text, or you can read along the text while consulting those. Good luck though!

And a CD drive might not be needed? The audio for the book is all available online, you can download and play them in your laptop directly! :relaxed:

Hi folks, I’m way behind (we are staring chapter 3 today right?). I’m trying to finish the exercises from chapter 1 and have a question regarding grammar point #14, 〜だけ { でなく(て)/ じゃなく (て)} 、〜も

In which occasions we must use でなくて and in which situations we must use でなく? Is the てoptional? The two sentences below are from a grammar dictionary:

  1. 肉だけでなく、野菜も食べなければいけない。
  2. 英語だけでなくて、アラビア語もうまい。

Sentence #2 has でなくて and sentence #1 has でなく、is there any reason for that?

I think a Google search leading to an authoritative site would perhaps be more reassuring than what I’m about to say, but as far as I know, there is no difference in meaning. The only thing that changes is that でなく probably feels a little bit more formal or a bit more like written language, because those are the situations in which the form without a て might be preferred. To my knowledge, in general (that is, when dealing with any verb or adjective, not just でなく(て)), differences between the 連用形 (e.g. the masu-stem for verbs, or the く-form for い-adjectives) and て-form only appear in really long sentences. In that case, verbs within clauses are usually linked with a て-form, and breaks between clauses are marked by the 連用形. That means the て-form might imply a slightly closer link between two things than the 連用形 in long formal sentences. That aside though, there is no difference.

I also looked into this and came to the same conclusion (i.e. no difference in meaning, ~て form might be a bit less formal, just like normal て form vs. ます stem for example).
My findings:

  1. DoBJG only ever lists ではなく and does not waste a single character on the other form. (Usually, if there is a similar form they will mention this.)
  2. This website lists the ~て version in the title but the explanation comes without て.

So it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference :woman_shrugging:

Okay I started the first chapter and already finished reading the first text and it was pretty easy.

I must admit I’m not really sure how to tackle the book. First doing the exercises, then reading the text and after that reading the grammar explanations? Kinda missing doing all the boring exercises in the Genki books.

Wouldn’t it be the same if instead I just played some visual novels and looked up all the grammar points I didn’t understand? I am just wondering about the best way to improve my japanese, but regardless I will still work through the Tobira book.

I read the the text and then the dialogues; look into any expression I don’t know in the table (usually katakana :laughing:); re-read the text and the dialogues; read the grammar notes; do the grammar exercises in the grammar book; add the chapter to my Bunpro reviews; and finally have a tutor (preply.com) to correct the sentences I made in the grammar exercises. For me, the Bunpro reviews play the role of the easy exercises in Genki.

Wouldn’t it be the same if instead I just played some visual novels and looked up all the grammar points I didn’t understand?

I guess so. For me the textbook route forces my to cover a certain of grammar point in a given interval. I don’t have the discipline to read native material at a given pace but everyone is different.