To those who do 10-20 lessons a day

[mojose]

You need reorder script, and constantly switch priorities:

1. After level up at first day do all radicals.
2. Then you have 3-4 days to spread ~20 kanji that depends on radicals you gurued in previous levels. I usually try to do something like 10 - 5 - 5 or 10 - 10, because from first group I could forget some and they migrate to next day. In result it will be more or less equal.
3. After new radicals are gurued, I usually spread new kanji into 2-3 days, again large and small group.
4. Then 3-4 days and you are will get level up.

With this trick you will do level in 7-9 days (depends on do you do first 2 App levels in one day or in two). And this doesn’t depend on your speed really. Even with 10 lessons per day you could do this, but vocabulary will collect in huge heap.

So you need more lessons to deal with vocabulary. And here is maths: wkstats com says, that up to level 14 average number of lessons to learn in each level - 180. Starting with level 14 - 150. So for instance I target to ~9-10 days per level, so I need around 20 lessons per day to deal with all 180 elements up to 14 level, then only 15 lessons per day should be enough to go with same speed. And should not be growing vocabulary heap.

On practice here are my lessons heatmap:

Few days I missed few days because of different things (too busy, or I was driving full day on vacation) in normal days I try to do 15-20 lessons every day, and it constantly moving because of reorder script. Really waiting for level 14, when I could do only 15 lessons per day and still have 9-10 days per level

Here is wkstats levels graphs:

[ren_grantz]

For me, its both a game and learning tool the usual SRS without reorder script has been working wonders in my memorization skills, and so I don’t want to change this method, at least in the foreseeable future. Ultimately, I like learning the vocabs more rather than individual kanji, so I don’t see anything bad not using it? Besides, I do WK on mobile app 80% of the time, so I can’t utilize most scripts even on lesson times.

[GrumpyPanda]

WaniKani LevelUp

Just leaving this here.
Put in the days you want to take for a given level (e.g. 10 days per level, for levels 10-20) and it will tell you how many new Items you would need to learn each day to do this.

[neX]

Your link is broken btw. I have to remove the “/htmlview” at the end in order to edit

[xelael]

If you’re using the app, then it can’t be helped. But if you got the idea that using the script either messes with the SRS system or gets in the way of Vocab lessons, that’s just a misconception.

The script is as helpful as you want it to be. The SRS works just the same, which means retention is as good as it should be, way above 90% for me.

I took from your OP that you were at least a little bit concerned about leveling speed, or else some of this wouldn’t have come up. If you want to keep a fast pace of a least 9 days/level but you don’t want to prioritize Kanji and Radical as soon as they become available, then it might just be impossible to do it without doing what you’re already doing.

Alternatively, you can simply reorder them when you reach the required threshold, and keep adding 20 lessons a day, on average, for the rest of the vocabulary throughout the week. You don’t need to change the order of the items at all (you can still keep using the app for those lessons).

[ren_grantz]

@xelael

I took from your OP that you were at least a little bit concerned about leveling speed, or else some of this wouldn’t have come up.

Yes, I just really wanted to have an idea how long it would normally take for budgeting reasons and I know the reorder script will definitely be recommended so I did asked specially for non-users of that script

@xelael

Alternatively, you can simply reorder them when you reach the required threshold, and keep adding 20 lessons a day, on average, for the rest of the vocabulary throughout the week. You don’t need to change the order of the items at all (you can still keep using the app for those lessons).

Thank you! I’ll keep this in mind in case I decided to throw away my cheating conceptions about the reorder script

[Gerandpa]

I do 20 lessons a day, and even with doing the previous level’s vocab first I still get through a level in 8-9 days. If you do the radicals first I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to still go max speed.

[Leo-Tyrant]

I have a big doubt ever since @jprspereira suggested the reorder script. Why isn’t it the default WaniKani behavior ?

This whole SRS system seems very thought out and calibrated, why would they not just use the reordered radical-kanji-vocabulary flow as a default?

Is there any risk that we are not seeing? Is the default setup just more comprehensive with vocabulary at the end?

I’m not doubting any of your suggestions, but I would like an official response as to why a reorder third party script even exists at all in the first place.

To clarify: I’m talking about the proposed reordered radicals 1 - kanji 2 - vocabulary 3. I’m not asking for the option for customized reordering at random, I’m asking for the option to order it that particular way, and why isn’t it already the default one

[jneapan]

uhm, monthly subscriptions?

[Leo-Tyrant]

Are you saying they artificially space out the level duration so that they retain users more time?

Is there really no other aspect to their current default order and logic? (If so, why would they be OK with a third party script where users can decrease the intended times?)

[jneapan]

WaniKani is designed like a game. You can play it several ways. The default way is to go through all the previous level’s content before moving on to the next level. That’s how a completionist might play it and it’s the safe way. You make sure people go through all of the content. If, however, you’re focused on speed and optimizing, you realize the parameters of the game and you tweak your play style. IMHO it’s a difference between different people and how they might want to play. The default setting might be great for 90% of people. As for why they allow us to tweak, it’s mostly probably because they’re great people. But we’re probably also providing them great data and ideas for what they can tweak themselves.

[Leo-Tyrant]

Thanks. I think I will keep trusting the default intended behavior (even if its 15-20% slower). “Completionist” seems like the actual achievement I would like to attain when learning Japanese.

Thank you so much for the context!

[snow-pine]

When I can do 20 lessons a day (i.e. summer break, not a care in the world, lalalala) I would complete levels in 8-9 days. I don’t use any reorder scripts.

[jprspereira]

@Leo-Tyrant

This whole SRS system seems very thought out and calibrated, why would they not just use the reordered radical-kanji-vocabulary flow as a default?

Because they wanna teach you things in order: you learn the radicals so that you can later learn the kanji and you learn the kanji so that you can next learn the vocab.

The point is, learning the vocab today or in 2 days is not a big deal at all (this is using reorder wisely). However, due to the fact that there’s no limitation on having to learn the vocab in order to level up, the reorder script can be abused and vocab lessons can be avoided completely. This leads to bad learning (using reorder unwisely).

So it depends on the user really (and their priorities: fooling themselves or actually learning). WK chose to not make this type of reordering available for all users. However, that action is still possible due to scripts. Which WK allows btw. It’s not like WK is preventing that from happening through scripts. They leave it to the users.

I’d say that the reorder can be dangerous in reviews (vs lessons) for more users though. So lately I recommend this Lessons reorder instead since it gives you no power to mess with reviews (my guide needs an update - I know :3):

[Userscript] WaniKani Lesson Filter

This is a third-party script/app and is not created by the WaniKani team. By using this, you understand that it can stop working at any time or be discontinued indefinitely. What is it? This script lets you specify the number of lessons of each type you want to do in a given session, while maintaining WaniKani’s intended lesson order. This means that if you use this script with the Ascending level then subject setting, you will get the radicals, kanji, and vocab that WaniKani wants …

[Jinxyface]

I’m nearing level 50 and I do more than 20 lessons a day. My average level up time is 10 days according to WKStats

[xelael]

Scripts exist because developers don’t generally think about every little detail users might want out of an app. I’m glad that they’re open to scripts, and that they instead focus their efforts on other things. This is pretty much what the community of gamers do with mods.

You are looking at this the wrong way. WaniKani doesn’t have a reorder functionality because they simply have not made one. And now that one already exists and people who want it, use it, they have no reason to waste any of their efforts doing something that’s already out there. There are dozens of other scripts, as essential to some people as the reorder one, which they also “overlooked”. It says nothing about their “official position” regarding its use.

There is nothing about the SRS system that this script, if used for leveling purposes, could mess with. There is nothing about learning the last 50-80 Vocab words after the “next level” Kanji and Radical that could mess with your ability to learn them properly. In fact, you will be learning words for previous Kanji throughout all 60 levels, not just right after Guru’ing your Kanji.

If WaniKani didn’t want you to even think about learning new Kanji before finishing your Vocab, they should just level you up after you get rid of all items, and yet, they don’t. They deliberately don’t because it’s not fundamental that you learn all those words before moving on to the next set. Take if from people who’ve been doing it. Take if from people who’ve done it. Retention is fine. It’s more than good enough.

[Leo-Tyrant]

There are a lot of high-level users recommending the reorder script, not only because of the “reorder” part, but because it can streamline the level by level speed.

I’m sure WaniKani official staff has looked into this and compared the average SRS retention, probable gains and risks of their offering, vs a modified solution (like the suggested re ordered script). At this point in time, given that they have not adopted this back into their solution, they must have concluded that their original solution is superior (to the users, to them, to both?).

I’m FINE with the default solution. It WORKS. I don’t presume to know better than an entire team that work on this everyday. My question was just looking for clarity, given the constant recommendation of the high level users, as if the reorder script was critical to their achievement.

In the case of the risks associated with it (people abusing it), they could just block some things but provide the same speedy behavior that the high level ones use and promote.

[Alenaf]

I personally find that if I use the re-order script then learning new kanji messes with my retention of the previous level kanji as vocab really helps to solidify those in my mind before I go to the next batch. Could be just me though. Also I don’t have the same problem with radicals as they are far less demanding. There’s also more pressure to increase speed once you unlock more lessons - perhaps that also only applies to neurotics like me

I find 10 days per level quite a relaxing pace generally, no re-order necessary.

[jneapan]

Let’s assume we have two people, A-kun and B-chan, who both just reached level 10 (WaniKani / Level 10). No matter what the case, both of them do exactly 20 lessons a day, and they both do reviews once in the morning, and once in the evening.

Now let’s do some calculations. The condition for leveling up is to guru 90% of the current level’s kanji. As you can see, level 10 has 15 radicals, 37 kanji, and 122 vocab. What will be unlocked from the beginning will be all the 15 radicals, a handful of kanji that use only radicals from previous levels (but less than 90%), and some vocab that use kanji from previous levels. Presumably, both A-kun and B-chan still have some vocabulary lessons from level 9, because WK won’t wait until you finish vocab to level you up.

By default, WaniKani will order your lessons by level, and then subject type (radical, kanji, guru, etc). There are other options you can choose (WaniKani — Log in) but this is the default one.

A-kun will do everything vanilla, no userscripts at all. Meaning he will do the remaining lessons from level 9 first, which will put him behind by a couple of days (depending on how many they are). After those are done he will finally get started on current level items.

B-chan, on the other hand, uses the reorder script to first do the current radical lessons, and put them in the SRS system. Until these radicals are guru level (it takes at least 3.5 days, assuming no mistakes), B-chan is free to tackle the lessons in whatever order she pleases, since it won’t affect leveling time. She can either finish the last level’s lessons, or prioritize current level kanji. After the current level radicals are guru’d, new kanji lessons will be unlocked. B-chan will then prioritize current level kanji lessons. After those are in the SRS system, she can then prioritize items as she pleases until those kanji are guru’d (again, another 3.5 days at least, assuming no mistakes).

In the end, both of them have the same workload and schedule, and in the end both of them will finish all their lessons. The only difference is B-chan will level faster by couple of days because she prioritizes levelup-critical items for lessons.

[xelael]

@Leo-Tyrant

I’m sure WaniKani official staff has looked into this and compared the average SRS retention, probable gains and risks of their offering, vs a modified solution (like the suggested re ordered script). At this point in time, given that they have not adopted this back into their solution, they must have concluded that their original solution is superior (to the users, to them, to both?).

Where exactly do you get this from?