Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 1, chapter 4

Continuing along, up to page 7 now.

page 7

「 ここは自分に厳しくいくべきだ、回ずしおカりントしおおこう 」

I should be strict with myself here, so I guess I’ll count this as one time
!!

I had a little bit of trouble getting through this, though the explanation earlier in the thread helped a lot. I do still have a question on the construction of 厳しくいく. Why is the いく necessary here? Is this part of a construction of using べき? I’m trying to understand it from not just the JP → EN perspective, but also from the EN → JP perspective.

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For everyone still reading along, here's a bonus, a scene from a related manga.

i-0010x

The good news on this one is it’s so common that once you see it used enough, you start to get a feel for it, and in time you’ll internalize what it means without even thinking of it. (It took me a very long time to reach that point, though
)

While 厳しい is an adjective (describes a noun), 厳しく is an adverb (describes the action of a verb). The verb here is いく. So, he べき (should) do the verb いく, and 厳しく in the way in which he should いく.

And as seen in a related manga...

i-0003

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I guess my main question is why is いく the verb?
When trying to construct “I should be strict with myself”, いく is not in the equation at all for me.

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I have been wondering the same thing. I haven’t been able to find a specific mention of this usage, but I decided that it’s probably just a natural way to say it. We do say “go easy” in English, so why not “go strict”? Also, 行く does have the meaning of something continuing into the future, so this may also play a role.

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I’d say @omk3’s about right with “go easy” and “go strict”.

  • うたくいく = to go well (to work out)
  • 䞊手くいく = to go smoothly (to turn out well)
  • 厳しくいく = to go strictly (to be tough)
Of these, I find うたくいく shows up the most often.

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Just got done :slight_smile:

I have a question regarding final sentence:

Summary

「ずりあえず高朚さんにからかわれなくなっおも筋トレは続けようず思った。」
ずりあえず = first of all
高朚さんに = marking Takagi-san as the doer of the passive action
からかわれなく = not being teased(?) - not sure what the く on the end is, wasn’t able to find anything about attaching く onto verbs
なっおも = even if it becomes
筋トレは = muscle training (set as topic)
続けよう = intend to continue
ず思った = I thought.

I think it would be something like “‘even if Takagi-san wasn’t teasing me, I’ll continue muscle training’ I thought” but I’m really not sure with that く

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Adjective with く ending + なる means to become something, to come to be something. ない is essentially an adjective attached to the verb, so からかわれなくなる would be I become not being teased, or basically, I stop getting teased. I believe your translation is essentially correct. “Even if it comes to Takagi not teasing me any more, I thought I’d continue muscle training.”

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Page 5 was real punishment

これは普段からかわれすぎおいる自分ぞの。。。眰なのだ。
This is punishment for myself for always being teased too much.
この苊しみを噛み締めながら。。。
While reflecting upon this suffering

次こそはずいう意識をたかめるのだ。。。
Next, it will raise awareness 

この眰の目的はそこにあるのだから。。。
That is the purpose of this punishment!
頑匵れオレこんな苊しみを味わいたくなければ。。。
I’ll do my best! To not experience this suffering

明日からはもっずからかわれないように気を぀けるんだ
I’ll be more careful tomorrow to deal with teasing!
芋おろよ高朚さん
I’ll show you, Takagi-san!
癟。。。五十。。。
One hundred
fifty


Page 6 was much better

おはよ。。。 腕どうかしたのケガ
Good morning! 
? What’s wrong with your arms? Injury?
え、ああ、いや別にただの筋肉痛だよ。
Uh, umm, no not really, simply muscle pain, you know. (Just some DOMS, you know
)
ぞぇヌ
Hmm

Page 7

やめおよホントに痛いんだから
Stop it, it really hurts!
今のは回に数えるのか。。
Does this count as one?
ここは自分に厳しくいくべきだ、回ずしおカりントしおおこう。。。
Failed to translate, using deepl: Let’s be strict with ourselves here, let’s count it as one
!
あはは
だたされた
Got you! Literally: [You were] tricked!.
よっぜどひどいんだね筋肉痛。
Your muscles are very sore, for sure.
くっ。。。
Darn
これは確実にからかわれたな。。。
This was teasing for sure.

Done with this reading for weekend. If I don’t post more pages by Wednesday, would somebody be kind enough to yell at me?

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Two more pages for today. Just past half-way through, so I should be able to finish the chapter going at a 2-page pace for the rest of the way.

page 8

「ぞぇヌ、䞉日坊䞻にならないずいいね。」
Is that right
 hopefully you won’t give up after a few days.

䞉日坊䞻 set expression meaning “a person that cannot stick to anything”
lit. [unsteady worker] [not become] [i hope]

「この筋トレずいう苊行から解攟される時 」
「それすなわちオレが高朚さんにからかわれなくなった蚌なのだ。」
When the time comes that I’m released from this muscle training punishment
 that will be proof of having not gotten teased by Takagi-san.

Combining these because they’re basically both halves to a complete thought. I think these two bubbles probably took the majority of the time for me to parse while reading through today’s pages, and I’m still not sure if it’s correct.

page 9

「明日こそはからかわれないように気を぀けねば 」
Tomorrow for sure, I’ll have to be careful to not get teased


From what I could find, ねば is an archaic way to say roughly the same thing as なければ

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Sorry if this has already been covered, but why do I see so many sentences ending with お-form verbs? Does it mean anything different than ending the sentence with a dictionary-form verb? Is this something that’s unique to casual speech, or is this normal textbook grammar?

Example from page 8: 「いや、昚日から 筋トレを始めおね。」

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Page 8

I understand [unsteady worker] and [not become]. Can somebody explain how ずいいね means [i hope]?

As always, thanks so much for everyone helping out!

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Unfortunately, I am quite pressed for time this weekend. I managed to finish the chapter today, but don’t have the time I would like to go through the thread and check what’s already been answered. I’m going to rush through my usual write-up and then I have to take off again. Please forgive any typos and such. If any of the questions I have, have already been answered, please feel free to ignore the question! Hopefully I’ll get a bit more time later in the evening to come back to this, otherwise, I will check in tomorrow!

Pg. 3

「オレには今日䜜戊があるのさ!!」
“As of today, I have a new strategy!!”

I haven’t seen に and は put together as a single particle before. What’s the significance of that?

「垰り道回も合わせお 今日はからかわれた 」
"Twice more on the road home, altogether that’s
 15 times I was teased today. "

Just not totally confident in my translation. 合わせお is the sticking point for me.

「それくらいじゃなきゃダメなんだ!!」
“It has to be that much or it’s no good.”

I’m guessing here by basically puzzling together the words I know, but I’m not confident. Am I ballpark?

Thought process:

それくらい = “That much”

じゃな = negation??? I truthfully omitted this from my thought process because it threw me, and is why I’m not sure about my sentence

きゃ = “must be/do”

ダメなんだ = “It’s no good/that’s no good.”

But I could be way off.

Pg. 4

「思ったよりメチャクチャキツむぞ  少し回数枛らすか?」
“This is much harder than I thought
 Should I reduce the number of times.”

Okay, I’m fairly confident of my translation, but why is the verb at the front of the sentence in the first phrase? I know reverse order is sometimes a thing, but I don’t know why it is really, outside of when OreGairu made the joke about “You don’t have to use reverse order to emphasize that.” So is it just for emphasis purposes?

Pg. 5

「これは普段からかわれすぎる自分ぞの眰なのだ。」
“This is my punishment for getting teased too much on a regular basis.”

すぎる throws me. I know すぎ is usually a suffix applied to a verb to say too much of that verb. I don’t know that the る is usually there. Does it change the meaning? Is there a particular purpose for it being there, as opposed to it being dropped?

ぞの is also a big question mark. I have no idea what it is contributing to the sentence. I suspect the の is supposed to the be ownership の (A’s B/B of A), but why is ぞ hanging around?

「この苊しみを噛みしめながら 次こそはずいう意識を高めるのだ この眰の目的はそこにあるのだから」
“Reflecting upon this pain
 Next, they say your awareness is raised
 That happening is the goal of this punishment!”

This was a very difficult sentence for me to parse. I spent probably the majority of my reading time on this one statement alone. のだ is still something I’m getting used to, but it’s the explanatory の, and while I’m not sure how to translate it into English with this sentence (because I’m STILL very unhappy with my phrasing in English for it, as is, but refused to continue to waste time on tweaking it so it sounded better), I understand that its there because each sentence is being used to explain the previous sentence
kinda. 倚分.

My big question is ずいう. It has
well. A lot of uses. It came up a few times in this chapter, though this was the first run in, and the cause of a lot of my reading time being eaten into because I was trying to understand it. Mostly, I’m just hoping that I applied the right use here. “They say” was the meaning I applied to it this time. Am I at least close?

「こんな苊しみ味わいたくないければ  明日からはもっずからかわれないように気を぀けるんだ!」
“This type of pain isn’t something I want to experience
 That’s why I will be careful and I won’t get teased more tomorrow! (Like I have before).”

The only thing that gets me here, is ように, which I believe is for comparisons (like, such as, etc.). It didn’t seem to fit neatly in here, though, and that’s why I put the comparison phrase in parentheses. I’m not super confident I am right. Is there another use of ように that I don’t know?

Pg. 7

Can I just say it was nice not to agonize over anything on Pg. 6? This chapter definitely felt a bit more challenging to me overall. :sweat_smile:

「ここは自分に厳しくいくべきだ、回ずしおカり゜トしおあこう。」
“I must go hard on myself, so let’s count that as one.”

べきだ is must, correct? Only question I had in this one.

「あはは、だたきれたヌ。よっぜどひどいんだね筋肉痛。」
“Ahaha, you weren’t lying~. Muscle pain is really terrible, isn’t it?”

Not confident on the first sentence translation. It comes off almost a bit meaner than Takagi usually is, so it doesn’t sound quite right to me. I’m also not positive Nishikata is the intended subject of that sentence, but couldn’t think of another possible translation. In addition, just noting that the second sentence also uses reverse order, so there it comes up again. It makes me wonder if I have just missed other cases of it, and it’s only standing out to me in this chapter because I have been struggling a bit more with the chapter overall.

Pg. 8

「ぞぇヌ、䞉日坊䞻にならないずいいね。」
“Well, I hope you don’t flake out~”

Just including to thank whomever included that term on the vocabulary sheet because that is a phrase that would have taken me a very long time to figure out on my own! It’s definitely a cute idiom, though. I like it!

「この筋トレずいう苊行から解攟されら時 」
“This weight training is a penance until I’m free
”

ずいう comes up again here. This time I feel like it’s emphasizing the weight training in the sentence, since it can be used for emphasis too, according to what I was reading. Do y’all agree?

I’m also not super confident in this translation or the following sentence that I feel links to it. Feedback would be appreciated!

「それすなわちオレが高朚さんにからかわれなくなった蚌なのだ。」
“That is, in other words, when I have proof I am no longer being teased by Takagi-san.”

The 蚌 is what’s throwing me here. Also, のだ makes another appearance here linking it to the previous sentence, I think.

Pg. 10

「すごく譊戒しおるっおいうのに  なぜだ  それ自䜓が逆効果なのか!?」
“Even if I’m being super careful
 Why?.. Is that, in and of itself, having the reverse effect!?”

っおいうのに looks to me like it’s another form of ずいう (cue the Simon and Garfunkel), with のに attached. This time, I think it’s taking the “even if” meaning becaude のに is there. Am I right that they are related, and that is the intended meaning in this context?

It is so odd to me that I have not seen this grammar point at all, but then to have it bludgeon me repeatedly all in the same chapter, again and again. :sweat_smile:

Pg. 12

「そういえば どこかでそんなコトを聞いた芚えが 」
“Come to think of it, I remember hearing something like that
”

Easy question here: is どこか actually meaning somewhere/anywhere, similar to when なにか means something/anything? I kinda just guessed because they look similar, but maybe I’m off-base.

「それはマズむ 高朚さんの方が身長高くなっおしたったら、今たで以䞊にからかわれおしたうじゃないか.」
“This is bad
 It’s Takagi-san’s way that if she grows taller than me, the teasing would be even more than it’s been up to now.”

Honestly, I probably should have taken a break at this point because my brain was so fried, but I pushed through anyway. Am I right in my translation? Some kind of breakdown would be helpful here. I might just come back and do it myself, but I don’t have the brainpower right now. I blame ずいう. (冗談です  倚分.)

Pg. 13

For the next 3 sentences, I felt like I intuited the meaning, but didn’t really understand the grammar at all. Also the latter two both have らしい. It looks to be used the same way as in Chaper 2, right? Note to self: look back at that thread when there’s time. (Sorry I’m using this almost as a notepad reminder, everyone! Hope my rambling isn’t too obnoxious!)

「ここ数日でかなり筋トレしちゃったぞ !!」
“I have done a considerable amount of weight training these past few days
!!”

ここ throws me
 I know it means here, so I’m not sure how it belongs in this sentence at all.

「たぁアレっおたったくのデマらしいけどね。」
“Well, that’s really just a false rumor though, right?”

らしい was the only thing that got me here. Will check other thread later, unless somebody is kind enough to talk about it again here.

「むしろ、適床な筋トレは成長ホルモンが掻発になるずかで、身長䌞びやすくなったりするらしいよ。」
“Rather, moderate weight training causes your growth hormones to become activated, which causes your height to become more developed.”

Points of confusion:

I’m not sure what ずかで contributes to 掻発になる.

䌞びやすくなったりする. The grammar construct at the end of that verb has me baffled. I think it’s related to become, but not really sure why it’s necessary, or if I’m even right. That’s why the English translation sounds awkward. It’s to reflect my confusion. :sweat_smile:

らしい coming up again. Here it makes me think of “trust me,” or something like that, which would make sense in the previous sentences too
 Again, will review that when I can. I’m really pushing my luck for time here trying to get this all written out!

「ムシしないでよ!!」
“Don’t ignore me!!”

It was at this moment I realised his first statement in the same panel was actually out loud. Sometimes it is a bit difficult to tell when he is thinking vs speaking. Usually there is a sorta cloud shape to the bubble when he thinks, so I should have clued in, but didn’t until this was said. Dropping it here in case anybody else finds it useful. :stuck_out_tongue:

Pg. 14

いいず思うよ、ちょっずだけどなんかたくたしくなった気がするし。」
“I think it’s a good thing. I feel like you have become a bit stronger.”

I think I have the spirit of the meaning, but not really understanding it entirely. Is ちょっずだけど a set phrase? I know ちょっず means a bit, but not sure what だけど adds to it.

Also want to note the くなった construct again. It’s really interesting to me how this book almost seems to introduce grammar constructs per chapter and use them repeatedly in that chapter. It is super helpful from a learning perspective, and almost feels like it’s on purpose. :stuck_out_tongue:

Pg. 16

「ちょっずカッコ良くなったんじゃない?」
“Haven’t you become a little more attractive?”

Yeah, not sure. This feels too on the nose
 Takagi is usually a touch more subtle than this when she is trying to flirt/elicit a reaction, so I’m not confident in that translation at all


「ずりあえず高朚さんにからかわれなくなっおも筋トレは続けようず思った。」
“I thought, for the time being, I’ll try to continue weight training, even if Takagi-san doesn’t tease me.”

A few thoughts:

Is おも related to おもいい at all? That is the phrase that made me put in “even if”, but I’m not sure if I’m correct. That was just intuition.

Is ようず related to ようずする? I know that means to try, so that’s why I have that in the sentence. Feels like it behaves similar to すぎ, but then if that’s the case, why does すぎ keep showing up as すぎる with the last consonant dropped, where as this shows up as ようず without the する? Is there a rule I need to be learning for that? Or am I totally wrong, and ようず is its own grammar point?

Also, why the sudden switch in tenses to past tense? Is it supposed to imply the manga is sorta like “The Wonder Years,” and is a flashback from Nishikata’s POV? Just sort of caught my eye because I don’t think the last bubble that was formatted similarly in the previous chapter was in past tense, but I could be mistaken. Another note to self (sorry!): look back at that and see if it was.

What a cute, if occasionally hair-pulling (ずいうめ ) chapter! As you can see, definitely was more of a challenge for me than before! I had a lot more questions and had to really slow down to get through it this time!

As mentioned above, if the questions have already been answered, please don’t feel obligated to answer them again! When I have the time, I’ll look through the thread and come back and edit this post to point out which have already been answered. I just want to get this posted before I lose track of all that confused me. My handwritten notes only get me so far in that respect!

Also, if you actually read this entire post, then you have earned an お疲れ様でした! I commend you for your patience in reading my rambling and numerous questions!

As always, thank you everyone! Y’all are amazing!
たたね!

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One of the uses お-form of verbs is to connect two sentences. When a sentence ends in the お-form, this usually implies there is a second sentence there that can be deduced from context.

In this particular case, Takagi-san asks why Nishikata has muscle soreness. Nishikata’s answer says “You see, yesterday I started muscle training and
 (that’s why my muscles are sore)” If he explicitly said the second part it would feel overly verbose, and the context makes clear what he’s saying, so he just ends the sentence with the お-form.

ずいいね can be divided into
ず => conditional particle (“if”)
いい => good
ね => sentence ending particle requesting agreement

So, Aずいいね, where “A” is a phrase or sentence, would mean “if A (happens), it would be a good thing, wouldn’t it?” This implicitly means that the speaker hopes for A to happen.

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Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. I’ve missed the “if” usage of ず before, so hopefully I will recognize it next time.

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I'll try and answer some:

It’s a common combination. I think it’s usually just the common use of に, with は marking the whole オレに as the topic of the sentence.

じゃなきゃ is short for じゃなければ, so “must do” like you translated it.

There is no reverse order here. The verb, or active part of the sentence, is キツむ (is hard), right at the end of the sentence. 思ったより (than I thought) is just a clause that modifies this.

You may have seen it as すぎ in certain constructions, but that’s just the stem. すぎる is a helper verb attached to the stem of other verbs to mean, as you know, ‘too much’. So the る is not extra, it’s part of the verb.

I think you may be confusing ように with より。 ように is used to mean “in order to”.
Edit#1: Apologies. There is actually a ように that means -like, similar to, and it is used the same way as the ように meaning in order to, by attaching to the verb in plain form. I suppose the difference is context?
Edt#2: I find this Cure Dolly video explains the multiple uses quite well. Funny thing is I had already watched it. It takes multiple repetitions for some things to sink in. http://youtu.be/IE7WgIOOGbM (still haven’t found how to embed videos
)

I think this is the verb 隙す (to trick) in passive form. So “you got tricked”? I don’t think it’s too cruel for Takagi. She tricked him into thinking she’d touch his sore arms again, but she didn’t. (By the way, question of my own here, what is that ずう she says in the previous panel? Just something to startle him or does it actually mean something?)
As for the word order, it’s not really reversed here either. だ is the verb at the end (with ね as the verb-ending particle). 筋肉痛 is added as an afterthought, as you do in casual speech, when you realize it may not be clear what you’re talking about. “It’s too bad, isn’t it, your muscle pain?”

Exactly.

Your translation more or less correct, but のほうが, while meaning way/side, is used for comparisons, to indicate the side that is “more”. Isn’t it hilarious by the way? He doesn’t worry that he won’t grow tall, or that Takagi will be taller, only that she’ll have more opportunity to tease him.
Breakdown:
高朚さんの方が=> The side of Takagi. This constructions is used for comparisons.
身長 = height
高くなる = becomes taller
したったら = したう (end up) + たら (if)
身長高くなっおしたったら = if her height ends up becoming taller
今たで以䞊に= 以䞊 is more than, so more than until now
からかわれおしたう = end up getting teased
じゃないか = just added for emphasis I think
Put together: “If Takagi becomes taller than me, I’ll end up getting teased more than until now.”

らしい is added to almost any word, and means something like it seems, I heard, apparently.
I think she’s saying “Well, as for that though, it’s apparently a completely false rumour”.

Adding some more answers as an afterthought:

ずいう is definitely a pain in the neck. I’m feeling that when I get to recognize and understand it naturally, it will be a sure sign that I’m almost fluent in Japanese. So, years and years from now, if it ever happens. Anyway, in this case, I think it’s the simple X ずいう Y construction, meaning Y called X, so here it would be “This penance called muscle training”.

ずか and たり have essentially the same function: They indicate that what they mark is only one item in a list of things. So here, moderate muscle training triggers the growth hormone (among other things it does), and makes growth easier (やすく ending) among other things. It’s not its main purpose, but it does that too. And らしい, like before, indicates that that’s what she heard, that’s what apparently happens.

Breakdown for 䌞びやすくなったりするらしい:
䌞びやすい = verb 䌞びる + やすい ending (easy to grow)
䌞びやすくなる = become easy to grow (adverb+ なる
䌞びやすくなったりする = become easy to grow among other things
䌞びやすくなったりするらしい = it seems it becomes easy to grow among other things

Te-form + も means “even if”, that’s right. Adding いい would ask for permission, so we don’t need that here. But it’s essentially the same construct, yes.

続けよう here is just the volitional form of 続ける (let’s continue, I intend to continue). The ず is just the quoting ず for 思った, the that in I thought that.

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I’ve recently returned to WaniKani and completely reset from level 19 after spending more than a year away from it. The book clubs were really great when I was using WaniKani before, and I’m excited to jump back in!

My personal goal here is to get better at reading without reading aloud to myself. Possibly because of years of too much anime, I’ve found that there’s a lot of vocabulary and grammar that I can understand when I hear it but struggle when it’s written. I think it’s also because it’s easier for me to parse particles and get the rhythm of a sentence when I read it aloud.

I’ve been catching up with the first three chapters and I really appreciate the detailed grammar breakdowns. I’m finding that there’s a lot of grammar where I can understand the overall meaning (at least when I read it aloud), but struggle to break it down and actually see how all the parts are functioning (shortening to ん is a great example of this, I could understand what was being said but wouldn’t have been able to tell you why it meant that).

A question about page 8

「フッ 蚀っおいるがいい、高朚さんめ。」
I can understand the meaning as something like “You can say what you want, Takagi-san” or maybe something with the feeling of “Laugh while you can, Takagi-san”, but I don’t actually know how the sentence gets to that meaning.

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Ah, so in this case, it would probably be better translated as “in order not to get teased” as opposed to the comparison ように. That makes sense.

I actually missed that she faked him out. That makes more sense, also. As for your question, I took it as just a noise (よっず, よし, etc.) I guess those two examples have a translation, though, so I’m not sure, but I just took it as similar to that. A quick search doesn’t yield me any results, but it’s one of the things I will be digging into when I’m off work.

It definitely made me laugh, too. :stuck_out_tongue:
Thank you for explaining that construct. I will add it to my study list.


and this is why you shouldn’t overthink things. I should have seen the volitional form right away, but I was so spent and in my own head by this point that it flew straight by me. Haha. For shame. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you for all of your answers. They were super helpful. <3

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Two more pages down (finished page 11). Nothing really jumped out as something I couldn’t figure out; just needed to look up a few vocab words here and there.

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Not sure what kind of a breakdown you want, maybe someone else can follow up on this if you want more.
Vおいる would translate as “to be doing V” or “being in a state of V”. In this sentence we have the Verb 蚀う, so in a more natural translation it just becomes “saying”.
The sentence would then literally mean “saying is good, Takagi”.
The rest needs to be added through context.
I would maybe write it as “(You) saying (these things) is good (for me), Takagi”

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I can only translate it instinctively too. This が right after the verb is strange. I’ve seen scattered mentions here and there that verb+がいい is an old-fashioned imperative form, so it might translate as “Go on, talk!”, but why would Nishikata use old-fashioned forms of speech?

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