Starting to read - 'Nothing makes sense' stage

My advice is honestly just read something you enjoy until you start to figure it out, especially if it’s untranslated. I have chapters of Suicide Girl and untranslated doujins, and while it is frustrating, after a few weeks, you start to recognize Kanji and grammatical patterns more and more until you can read panels, then pages, then whole chapters without looking up words, and once you hit that point, boy does it feel good.

That said, you really gotta learn how to use the radical and drawing tool on Jisho (especially the app).

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Go for it if you like yotsubato, but I thought it was boring as hell and just switched. Yotsuba is definitely easier per se, but…you are gonna have so much stuff you don’t know regardless so you might as well pick something that you like. You can maybe sift through the core 2.3k and learn any words in there you haven’t already to make your time a little easier too.

But there really is no secret to powering through it. Its just a matter of doing it. Keep in mind your goal is not to finish a yotsuba chapter when you pick it up. Its not to finish a book. Its to learn as much as possible and see what you’re lacking. Thats the whole reason why learning to read by reading is better than using textbooks and learning words out of context. Because if you do it right, the knowledge you can acquire after 1 hour of trying to read is much more valuable to your next reading session than the knowledge you can acquire after 1 hour of looking at a textbook. It should be hard and it will be for a long time, its just at the beginning you don’t have the benefit of being able to look back and see how far you’ve come.

Personally, I SRS my words and recommend everyone else does too. I also don’t recommend you just go for whats easy. Pick something you want to read and don’t lie to yourself about what interests you. Are you learning japanese so you can read nhk web easy or so you can read some manga or watch some anime?

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Same here. And it’s still a bit of a struggle. But as others have mentioned, the thing that changed it around for me was finding something that I really wanted to read. In my case, it was Mushoku Tensei. I needed to know more of the story so I picked up the books.

There’s nothing wrong with just powering through but it helps a whole lot to have something that interests you outside of just the fact that it’s in Japanese.

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Throwing in my two cents - great advice here. Bottom line - It will be hard, no matter how much you’ve studied, but it will get better. Real language experiences aren’t really graded to your level - there’s going to be grammar you don’t know because it’s N1 and not in your current textbooks, but is actually used a fair bit (or the author you’re reading uses it a lot). There will be tons of vocabulary to pick up. A few things that have helped me:

Reading long-ish manga series’ - it definitely gets easier the more of that same story you read - you get used to the writer’s style, and you tend to see vocabulary repeated.

Reading lots - In principle I like Tadoku, but the material I want to read is a bit too far above my level to not look up anything. Personally, I use a bit of hybrid - look up words that I really need to to understand what’s happening, keep a list in my dictionary app - but as much as possible, just keep going and get the gist. Once I’d gotten further into the series I just finished (like, volume 3-4), I went back to my list for chapter 1 to see what words I still didn’t know, and threw them into an SRS. Once they were sticking okay in SRS, I went back to chapter 1 and re-read it. It was certainly easier knowing more of the vocabulary, but I would have progressed at maximum 1 chapter per week if I’d been trying to SRS all the unknown vocabulary before moving on, and that would have annoyed me from the perspective of knowing what happened next. Also, some of those words in my list did not need to be SRS-ed - the more frequent ones I’d usually picked up by the time I came back to the list. Bonus - I can compare the lists and see that the average number of words I needed to look up was declining (but there were still a fair number of them). Wouldn’t work for everyone - you need to really like the source material - but something that I’ve found helpful.

Definitely look for something you’ll like - but I wouldn’t feel confined by things that you’re familiar with in English. I’m not really a big manga reader in English, and don’t have a ton of familiarity with many series at all - I pull a lot of samples from kindle to try for a bit and see if they seem intriguing, impossible to read etc. I collect any interesting looking free volumes so that I can read a volume and see if it’s something I want to read. Just recently finally opened up one of them, my first thought was ‘this is a little unusual’, but I’ve quickly come to ‘this is fun, I want to read more’ - probably wouldn’t have picked it up based on description.

It’s okay to put the book down - if you’re not enjoying the story, if you’re frustrated by how confusing it is, it’s fine to try something else and come back to it later (or not). It feels like you ‘have’ to finish it because it’s studying, or because you went to the effort of importing it, but it’s more important to read something you actually (at least kind of) want to read.

Try a little bit every day - I found that helped most with progress - I will finish 1 page, or even 1 panel, just to stay in routine. On a good day, I read a few chapters of manga (I look a lot of stuff up, my Japanese, to be clear, is not great); on a busy day, I read a panel (or a few if there’s no text in the next available panel) and go to bed.

Join a book club, or read along with an old one, if you feel like the camaraderie and support would help - you may or may not like the book choice, but we have a fair number of old ones so likely you can find something that interests you (or nominate something you’re interested in).

And good luck!!

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my approach is to choose something i like, and then basically brute force it.

i don’t have the patience to read stuff i’m not interested in. but if it’s something i’m interested in, i can just keep going. you know that feeling when you’re reading and you think just a few more pages, and next thing you know it’s hours past your bedtime? with stuff i’m interested in, i get that even while spending more time looking up stuff than reading.

as my vocab is maybe a few thousand words at most, and my grammar is pretty rubbish, i just accept that i’ll have to look up tons of stuff. maybe in a few years i won’t anymore, but for now, if i want to read in japanese, it’s just something i need to deal with.

i don’t use anki for vocab, nor do i pre-learn vocab lists. it just doesn’t grab my attention enough. and as others have said, i only look up enough to be able to understand what’s going on. unless it’s some grammar or vocab that grabs my attention.

is it a particularly efficient way of using reading to learn? probably not. does it work anyway? probably to some degree. can i curl up in my sofa with my kindle (and the laptop to look stuff up) and read for 4 hours? most definitely :smiley:

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my fear when trying to reading (on a website) without a dictionary like yomichan is reading a kanji wrong and that would stick to my mind having the wrong reading.

I just read the article about the election in japan and “election” 選挙(せんきょ) I was reading the first 3 times as えんきょ.

When by any chance I used yomichan and then I saw as せんきょ。Honestly, it is very frustrating, because if starting reading wrong it is gonna snowball and I wont realize.

That’s why maybe I havent tried reading printed mangas, because of this.

Also, I get frustrated because when names of people and names of place appear, I never know the reading and if I was supposed to know those. Then I start like crazy on takoboto finding the radicals trying to build the kanji I just saw and see the meaning.

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I’m personally a strong advocate of Satori Reader, it’s built from the ground up for Japanese language learners. Read the articles/stories (which are always fun), and instantly look up any words or grammar you don’t understand as well as translations for the all the sentences. Another great thing about it is that you can sync it with your WaniKani profile (despite them being made by different companies), so all of the kanji you’ve already learned won’t have furigana.

If you don’t want to pay for their service, I also like reading manga and playing video games in Japanese and just keeping my Japanese dictionary app on my phone for anything I need to look up (I’m pretty comfortable with Japanese grammar by this point though, I just need to look up words).

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Right?? I feel like reading is actually a good approach, because not only is it fun, but also delivers the necessary context to learn how a word or kanji is used. Not the translation from/English, but usage. :slight_smile:

Out of curiosity where did the えん come from? A similar word? By IME is not terribly helpful and doesn’t find anything.

Places and people’s names are a massive pain when reading online, with or without a dictionary. Fortunately, one can easily identify them, because the kanji combinations are strange and googling will give common readings :slight_smile: .

I usually add them to an Anki deck for names, because I’m super behind on that.

I know that Yosuba is supposed to be for beginners but it was really difficult for me to read specifically because of the lack of Kanji. I had trouble parsing sentences and Kanji was effective for that reason.

When I first started though, I read graded readers and then some beginner Japanese stories that I found on Kindle. Then I worked my way up to some of the book clubs here which are great because everyone is super helpful and the vocab lists helped a ton.

At around level 30, I played my first VN in Japanese and now I try to read Manga and things that interest me. It’s easier to power through material when you WANT to read it. Don’t sweat it if you don’t get everything all the time. It’s a natural part of learning. Good luck!

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no, not similar to any other in any way afaik.

I just dont know why my mind sometimes thinks it is a type of reading.

Same was happening to ‘scene’, I was reading 現場(げんば) as げんじょう all the time,

I dont know why. But its reading from WK is only げんば。But checking now takoboto, it accepts げんじょう. my confusion starts there and turns into fear when reading in the wild.

Okay, this makes sense, though. When 場 defines a specific location and is the last kanji in a word, it sometimes has those 2 readings and I wouldn’t be surprised if one encountered じょう in a book where nowadays ば is more common. I haven’t seen げんじょう, but one can confuse it with 現状 or 原状 if it’s written in kana only.

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When I tried to jump from Genki 2 into Tobira I had a very difficult time following along with the increased amount of reading you have to do. Since I was struggling I kind of gave up on Tobira, but at the same time I joined a discord that formed groups to translate video games/manga from Japanese into English. I picked a group doing a pretty easy SNES RPG, and it was also difficult, but having to translate very small chunks of text in English forced me to do intensive reading on material that was definitely above my level. It was still slow and not the very enjoyable, but after participating for a couple months I went back to Tobira and found that my reading speed was significantly faster, and I had no trouble at all understanding the reading material.

So what I’m really trying to say is, there’s definitely this stage where nothing makes sense, and reading isn’t really fun. You just have to to steadily pick at it by actually reading and staying accountable. It never feels like you’re really improving, but one day texts that seemed impossible before will become easy and fun.

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I have been there… :frowning: Even when I arrived at level 60 with Genki 1, reading was too much of a struggle. I suggest to finish Genki 2 as soon as you can. Grammar (and not vocabulary) will make all the difference. You can easily look up words that you don’t know.

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just out of curiosity, because i also want to read it in japanese, are you now able to reliably understand mushoku tensei in japanese?

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After book 1 it was easier but I’m still looking things up.

The thing with Mushoku Tensei is the protagonist is a middle aged hikikomori and he talks like one. There’s a lot of idioms and some stuff that you won’t find in many of the “polite” dictionaries.

But I just enjoyed the story so much I slogged through.

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Yeah in the english translation it’s not so obvious that he speaks much differently.

But if you can do that, then you gave me a lot of motivation to keep studying, thank you!

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Hi everyone. Sorry for the late response. Had a few busy days and even my reviews on WK slowed down a bit so had to catch up. Thank you everyone for all the amazing replies! Honestly, all of them are great and I’m still reading through the last few. I really appreciate the effort you all put into the replies. An extra thanks to @chrisosaurus because that post was amazingly detailed and super helpful! Also @drdru for the great resources and his own project!

Based on what I took from the replies and the type of approach that is interesting to me:

  1. Ill probably stop Yotsuba because I did not have fun slogging through the start. Ill probably find a book/manga I definitely want to enjoy and put effort into that. I got some great suggestions. Looks like 大海原と大海原, からかい上手の高木さん are frontrunners on things to check out. I might even start the beginner book club and follow through this time.

  2. I gotta stick with something fun. I get bored easily with things uninteresting to me so I’ll try and mix it up with reading. I also hate not understanding what Im reading/doing so time to get used to that

  3. Will look up words but make an Anki deck if needed or if there are way too many recurring words that I’m forgetting

  1. Have to keep the momentum going so when i start something, I will read everyday, even if its just one
    panel before bed. Thanks for this one @Nishi790. This accountability will help when Im dead after a day of work + exercise

  2. Continue doing graded readers with my Italki tutor (had a break since I was sick for a bit) and ask her when I’m stuck on certain manga

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I probably need to finish up Genki 2 before finding comfort with grammar. It hasn’t really clicked yet. I tried watching Nichijou without subs and I couldnt understand the connected words + conjugations at all. I definitely want to play games in Japanese but I’d rather get comfortable with it through other media because playing games would be too tedious for me if I tried to break each word + sentence down.

I definitely have my eye on it. I dont mind paying but I gotta give the free stuff a try to see if it works for me. Is there any particular thing about Satori Reader that you findn beneficial over other things?

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I’ve been using Satori Reader for the past month, and I absolutely loved it and will recommended to everyone that want to add it to their reading repertoire. What I liked about it is:

  1. Suitable for beginner to advanced level. There are quite a lot of content in Satori Reader, ranging from fantasy, thriller, mystery, even “real life” content like news and interview (it mostly made up, though the content itself is close to real news)
  2. Translation. Every chapter has translation. They often add extra grammar explanation on a tricky and complex sentences, or obscure reference that only Japanese people know.
  3. Customizable. You can choose to show furigana on a kanji that you don’t know and hide furigana from kanji that you already know. You can add your own kanji list or connect it through wanikani API to match your wk level
  4. Audio. Every chapter has audio. The narrator is native Japanese speaker, so you can practice listening skill too
  5. Bite sized. Every chapter is quite short, so it’s perfect for busy people, or if you like to do repetition like me

There are SRS feature but I never used it so I can’t give my opinion on that.

And keep in mind that you can try Satori Reader for free, though it’s only limited to the first 2 chapter for every series.

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That sounds pretty great. Ive used Todai’s Easy japanese app on my phone (ios) for new articles and I would def recommend that to others for news articles. Satori sounds like an upgraded and more interesting version of that. For at least 4 days of the week, I have limited time to read japanese but bite-sized makes me really want to give this a go. Ill report back by the end of this coming week with how it goes!

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