That does make is sound different from the “baito”- I’ve heard used before in media. But, maybe she means it’s short-lived then? Like, it’s one of those works you can only do as a student since they’re like 2 months long, then nothing? 
So, not about work-hours being limited, but the whole employment being a short-term solution.
My guess now is that “baito” is for both those instances, but I’ll let others make the case that’s how it is, as I honestly cant say. ^^
That’s exactly what I had understood by バイト so far, which is why I’m wondering. In the book she’s been in the exact same position for more than a decade, so it’s full time and long term. I’m thinking maybe it’s the fact that she’s paid by the hour that makes a difference? Maybe that there’s no chance of promotion? That it’s a position that could be filled by anyone and you could be without a job at any time? Not sure. Or maybe just that it’s a job that’s traditionally done as a バイト by people who soon move on.
Oh, now I get you! 
That is strange for someone that’s working the same job full-time. You’d get a monthly wage. But, maybe you’ve just nailed it there.
Calling @Nemuitanuki for an opinion. 
(well, anyone else, I just thought about someone that works there and might now. ) Apparently @denzo is on it!
just taking this from wiktionary, you could argue this usage falls under point 4
basically work that’s not a regular full time employment or temp work contract[1].
in this case though, I think it’s more likely that whoever is doing the criticizing just doesn’t think it’s a proper job…it’s not unusual for something like working at a supermarket to be looked down on.
note that working full time hours doesn’t necessarily make you a full time employee, although I don’t know about japanese employment law specifically… ↩︎
I think the implied distinction here is “not a 正社員” rather than “not working full hours”, although the two often go together. This graph from the wikipedia アルバイト article is interesting:
as it distinguishes it both from “regular employee” and from “part time worker”…
So a full-on just language question response. I guess, I’m still wondering about why I made this thread at this point.
This sounds about right. And yes, you could end up working more than a full time employee, but that has nothing to do with it.
Yes, exactly this. But what is the main practical difference? I’d guess monthly instead of hourly wage, possibly some health insurance, maybe harder to be fired? Now I wonder, does バイト even count towards a pension?
Mmm, but I think my impression is they are particularly strong in Japan, though perhaps weakening a little in recent decades as the school->university->company-job-for-life ladder has got harder to stay on. Wikipedia’s 正社員 article notes:
一般的に日本では、正社員としての職歴以外は、労働市場において意味があるキャリアとして評価されないことが多い｡
Not sure how you came about that conclusion. In the end, I think not having found a full-time work as an adult is pretty universally seen as personal failure - even thought it’s often quite undeserved. it’s not seen with light eyes where I’m from and I don’t expect Japan to be different, especially with the work-life emphasis they have for adult life!
I guess, that’s what you might be going on about, but I’m not sure how different that is? :think
I think it’s basically the same as being an employee elsewhere. you’re not on a fixed term contract, you have a notice period, etc. etc.
and you’re probably seen as being a more “useful” member of society
Forgive me if you already realized this, but it wasn’t obvious to me originally: it comes from the word “arbeit” (basically, German for “work”).
The Japanese sense to my understanding basically means paycheck-to-paycheck work. Income, but not a career. Usually with multiple employers.
I don’t mean “most countries and cultures don’t think it matters but Japan does”, I mean “most countries and cultures think it matters but Japan really really thinks it matters”. This is just subjective impressions from stuff I’ve read, though, so people with more direct contact will be better informed.
I knew that, but it’s good to have it here for others who may not.
This sums it up perfectly I think, thanks. It even invites the same sort of criticism I’ve seen about バイト.
So the question that remains, related to all of the above, is, is it very rare to see middle-aged people working in konbinis, shops, cafes, etc? Is the service industry almost exclusively staffed by バイト workers?
It wasn’t a dismissal of your impression. Just to let you know. You got it from somewhere and that’s valid. But yeah, this experience is pretty universal if you have ever been out of a job? or just know people who do? Or know about people who doesn’t have steady employment in their later years? - you get a steady stream of subtle but lethal criticism.
So I’m not sure what your argument is here – are you saying you have experience of non-steady employment in multiple countries and it’s all viewed exactly the same socially everywhere? TBH I would be pretty surprised if there were not some variation between countries on exactly how much of a stigma it is seen as.
How to measure stigma? I have no idea. But I’m sure neither you or I can figure that out but just have to wait for a good global unemployment/parttime-work-life quality study on this issue. 
Nope. No more than in my own country (USA).[1]
But I’d expect most thirty-something or forty-somethings who are bussing tables or ringing up customers at a 7-11 still hope to progress to something more “career-like” at some point.
In my experience, Japan isn’t all that different than other countries in this regard: parents still want their children to become doctors or lawyers, or obtain prestigious positions at exciting companies.
There is nothing wrong with waiting on tables, or working a cash register, or digging ditches. All are honest work and a way to make a living, but most would aspire to something more fulfilling, and few would call those jobs a career.
Japan’s salaryman thing and the whole Asian “tiger mom” thing might be relatively more intense, but people are people, and what was true decades ago might be less true today.
Of course, defining “rare” and “middle-aged” isn’t trivial. ↩︎
Those workers are often referred to as „Freeters“: Freeter - Wikipedia
There is even a literary subgenre called Freeter-Literature.
I honestly find it more rare where I am to see younger conbini staff. The ones I frequent are all run by middle aged people. Restaurants usually have younger staff, but it’s a good 2/3 mix of middle aged and young people.
I believe only managers of the company would be considered not バイト workers.
Also as a way to come back to this, let me ask my Japanese partner to define what he thinks バイト means culturally or his idea of the nuances behind it
Okay he says
悪いことと言うと、『大人になってもまだちゃんとした仕事をせず、アルバイトしかしてないんだ。｡｡」と言われることはある
Which roughly translates to “even though I’ve become an adult, I still haven’t done a “proper job” outside of part time work…”
He also says anyone can do アルバイト Not that theres a specific group who does it more than others.
