Short Japanese Culture Questions

Thanks for spoiler tagging and that you’ve got a possible answer! :slight_smile:

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What kind of reason is there for 大根役者 (white radish actor) being the term for “ham actor”? Is it anything like the etymology of “ham actor” itself?

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Wiktionary says:

Derivation unknown. Possibly from the way that daikon as a food may be considered unsophisticated and crude; from the way that daikon are white (白いshiroi ), alluding to the term 素人 (shirōto, “amateur; hack”); or from a well-known witticism that no matter how much daikon one eats, it never causes food poisoning / is worth notice (hinging upon the verb 当たる (​ ataru ), meaning either “to hit the mark” / “to be worth notice”, or “to cause food poisoning”) .[2]

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I know the term ブラック企業, but would ブラック会社 be immediately recognized as as synonym? Would it seem strange or wrong to use that, or are the terms considered synonymous?

It seems there is a movie with ブラック会社 on it’s title and Wikipedia’s page for ブラック企業 says “またはブラック会社”, so I guess no one would say it’s wrong. I must say, tho, that I’ve never seen it being used in the wild. And people definitely do talk a lot about ブラック企業.

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I had a random chat with a colleague at work and we started talking about inviting friends over for dinner.

Thing is, what’s expected of the host from people our generation is very different from my parents’ generation: basically, they would invite people over and cook them a full dinner and serve drinks etc. Among my friends, we invite people over, but let people bring their own drinks. As the host, you’ll serve snacks etc, but let people order take-out and buy their own food.

It’s both a difference in how much money you have (dividing expenses makes sense that way), but also with lots of special diets and preferences, it’s just very hard to cook for other people I find. ^^;

I wonder about what expectations people in Japan have when you invite people over? Or you get invited over to someone. Do you bring drinks? Food? Or is the host expected to cook for you and take the expenses, including drinks?

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I don’t know where you live, but in Tokyo it is not a thing. You usually are neither invited nor invite others over and meet in a restaurant instead. Most of peoples spaces are too small for that and usually people see their house as a private space and don’t want to expose it to others judgment. In the beginning I missed it but now I wouldn’t invite people in most of the cases, it doesn’t feel right.

People are really curious about your circumstances if you are a foreigner and might give you the impression that it is normal to get a chance to have a look into your private rooms, but it totally is not. If you don’t like the idea they would make this a topic with everyone who knows you (or they) for the next 20 years it’s better to avoid it.

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Eeek! Sounds both expensive and judgemental. I was not expecting that! :eyes:

I live in Sweden and people don’t bat an eye if you live simply. If you live alone, you probably live with less space, that’s just normal. Though I’ve heard/seen videos of how the Japanese idea of small living accommodations is second level small.

I guess there are instances when you wouldn’t wanna invite someone over, but really, I’ve never heard someone made fun of how someone else lived.

Makes me wonder how people feel about this in the country side? :thinking:

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences!

tenor-3

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They don’t make fun I think, it’s more about defining your status by many things that sound really harmless to Europeans, that’s why its tricky. For example I am from Austria and because it is a very small country there are not so many universities. Usually people talk a lot about the universities they have been to (at least to others who studied) and in most of the cases this is without ideas of showing off etc. because even if you wanted to you couldn’t because in most of the cases the universities are free of charge and there is no entrance exam anyway with only a few exceptions. But in Japan you should never touch this topic, it is super sensitive. I had to find many things the hard way because I am very naïve :innocent:

Compared to Sweden there might be some other issues to consider as well I am not even aware of. You could accidentally say ‘Everyone in Sweden speaks English’ and really hurt someone’s feelings. In the worst case you become a target of マウンティング and don’t even realize it in the beginning. I don’t want to say that Japanese people are in general bad people but if you talk about certain topics it will trigger things and people that could be potentially uncomfortable: Education, living environment, income, looks etc. Really super harmless stuff like 'my child plays soccer" has a kind of scary dynamic (for some people) while it could be something not even worth mentioning in other countries.

What I can recommend now after creating some trouble is to make a google search if you are not sure about something like this, like “inviting people over + trouble” etc. in Japanese. Your psychiatrist will hate this trick :joy:

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While I can see where what @amimononohitsuji is saying comes from, please don’t think that Japanese people never invite people over. たこ焼きパーティー and 鍋パーティー are very Japanese concepts after all, lol.

But these are surely a lot more common between college students or working adults from the same company and similar age, exactly because these situations are easier to handle due to similar background, for the reasons already given.

Talking with people with very different (or unknown) background from yours and properly 気を遣う can be very stressful even for Japanese folks and thus actively avoided.

I don’t know anything about Amimononohitsuji, but since they gave the example of saying “my child plays soccer”, I must agree that interacting with other parents can indeed be full of landmines as Japanese would say, exactly because you don’t have much means to get to know about them beforehand and yet they might come from a completely different background from yours, leading to all sorts of awkward situations.

Back to the original question, specially if you are on your twenties, clear instructions might be actually given. Specially for things like たこ焼きパーティー it is quite common to go and buy the ingredients together at the supermarket before going to one’s place, so the bill is naturally split.

I also have a Japanese friend on his thirties who likes inviting people over, but since he likes having good wine and such, he actually just tells the price per person and that’s it. I have seen people from work doing that for 鍋パーティー, too. As long as your are not family and there is not a huge age (and thus income) gap, Japanese people are usually not shy of saying the price of things.

Also, as already said, Japanese people do eat out a lot. So it’s often the case going to someone’s place is the 二次会 or 三次会, as in you are going there after you all already ate. In those cases people usually just hit a combini in the way and buy whatever they want.
If you are single, Japanese people won’t expect you to be able to serve lots of foods and drink by yourself. Japanese rooms are quite small, after all.

All in all, if you are going to someone’s place and you have reason to believe they are going to serve you food for free, it’s considered good manners to bring something to the host. It doesn’t need to be something for the event itself, you can just bring some sweets for them and that’s it.

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I agree 100% to what you are saying. So far I was not invited to many events at home and that might be due to the fact that I did not study in Japan so automatically the depth of friendships is not at that level. Recently I made quite bad experiences with other mums in a kindergarten environment and if I would have known about things like ママカースト and PTAカースト probably this could have been avoided altogether. Maybe I see things a bit too negative at the moment because of that.

In the cases when we do visit friends or family members the most common thing would be to bring drinks like wine from your country etc. or a desert like a cake.

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I don’t have children and thus have never been on these situations, but they do seem very scary from what people say :joy:

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The whole trick is to see things unfolding from a scientists viewpoint, a primatologists to be more specific :rofl:
Then it is the best comedy ever.

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In my time living in Japan I found it was very rare to have gatherings at a friends house, as someone else mentioned, the apartments are small, and also not very soundproof. It’s not suitable to have your friends come over so instead you all meet at an Izakawa. You don’t want to have everyone crammed in and also making noise and disturbing your neighbors. For reference I spent 18 months in the countryside, and then about 9 months living in Osaka so I experience both country and city life. It was not normal in either place to have a group of friends over to party.

There are a couple of exceptions, however!

One is having a few friends over in winter for a Nabe Party. In this case you’d invite the amount that can fit around your table (if you have a kotatsu, even better) and as the occasion of the gathering is a meal, you’d have all the ingredients ready to start cooking when people get there. I would also have some beers and sake for people just in case but would not be surprised if they brought there own, if I was the guest I would probably bring a few drinks with me and expect the host would have some more if I ran out. The best thing about Japan is that you are never far from a convenience store so you can always send someone out for more beers if you need to!

The other occasion is having a bbq in summer, if you happen to have a yard. This applies more if you are living in a town where some friends are living in houses, if you are in city and you all live in apartments then you will take your bbq to the park or beach instead. If you are going to a house bbq you would expect the host to already have a variety of meats and vegetables to cook but if you picked up a pack of sausages on the way that would probably be appreciated, but not essential. Again the theme of the gathering is for a meal so the host would provide.

So you’d only really have people over for a specific reason, not a group hang where ten people come over to party instead of going somewhere.

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Same in Sweden. People often bring a bottle of wine or something similar, not to be served during the dinner itself (unless the host wants to do that), but for them to enjoy however they want at a later time.

But thanks for the lengthy answer. Doesn’t seem all too different now from how it works here: after all people tend to make acquaintances and friends among their peers rather than people that are much older, so the difference in social standing isn’t that big here either is my image. :thinking:

Makes me remember my student years of living in a room with no toilet, shower or kitchen of my own (they were shared spaces), and cramming 25 people into 13m2 :rofl: Every space was a sitting or standing area! XD We even danced once less people were in the room itself! :man_dancing:

I spot a major cultural difference to my country here. ^^’ We can’t buy alcohol in the grocery store, but only special stores - which close pretty early. So, yeah, planning is key!

But, sounds like a good amount of sharing in the expenses is normal: you’re both having drinks on hand but also expect others to not only rely on that. :slight_smile:

This is interesting though. Not getting together at home unless having a specific purpose, like a specific meal. That is a difference for sure. For the older generation here, it’s a bit like that I guess (you invite people to dinner), but for my generation it’s more inviting people over to hang out, maybe have a beer or two, order in, watch tv/play games etc. Or as the start of an evening, order in food, have some drinks - then leave for going out to a bar.

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One usually goes to these things to grab a quick beer and a meal after work. Nothing fancy. Just cheap and fast. As such they give off pretty masculine energy.

I rarely see women go to these things except if they are blue collar workers.

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The Kansai area (especially Osaka) has a reputation of being very laid-back and down to earth. That is in contrast to the reputation of Tokyo, where people are said to be cold.

To that end, most comedians are associated with Osaka, and comedy shows are full of Kansai-ben.

In my experience, the streets of Osaka also have a very different vibe than Tokyo. It’s easy to make friends in Osaka just by stumbling around Dotombori late at night, as everyone seems more friendly and willing to laugh. In Tokyo, however, everyone seems to be in a rush and has somewhere to be.

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Yeah, I don’t think “hanging at my place” is much of a thing among Japanese adults, indeed. It’s more like “let’s have a party at my place”, so people gather to have Nabe/Takoyaki/Gyoza/whatever. I also have a Japanese friend who would put up Poker nights at his place now and then.

I only see that sort of random hanging happening for students, as in from middle school to college. And I would say it’s less a generation thing and more a not having that much money or not being allowed to go out in the first place (for the ones in middle school, for example).

During college we would hang out at each other’s place randomly, but that’s mostly because we all lived next to the university and didn’t want to spend the money going out every single time.

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OK, this seems like something really out of the blue, but it was triggered by an exchange I had over a social media platform direct messaging service recently (think Messenger, Twitter DMs etc). Responses from anyone are appreciated, but I’d particularly like the input of people who have lived in Japan or who have experience talking to Japanese people (more than me – I’ve been doing it for maybe 3 months? – ideally).

Have you ever asked a question in the midst of a conversation (or via a message) that got completely ignored, even when you repeated it? If it’s happened to you, does this happen only via text, or in verbal exchanges as well? Have you noticed any patterns as to when this happens (e.g. does it seem to be a question the other person just doesn’t want to answer)?

If you want the context, the short version is that I was chatting with a Japanese fan about a VTuber, and he mentioned a particular karaoke stream during which something happened. I thought it was something recent (because while the event sounded familiar to me, I felt like the occurrence I remembered had happened quite a long time ago), so I asked when it had happened. That got ignored, so I tried again. Ignored again. The rest of the conversation was going very smoothly otherwise, as far as I can tell. (And to be clear, the conversation actually continued even though my question was ignored: he just picked up the other topic that was present and directed things that way.)

In short, what I’m asking myself now is if this is a common way to avoid an uncomfortable topic in Japan, or if I should just take it the same way as I would with any other person (i.e. this is just typical mildly sociopathic behaviour that anyone could choose to have).

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Ignoring is a common communication strategy in Japan. At some point I came to the conclusion that everyone in Japan is a sociopath because of it before I understood that. :rofl:

I encountered the following types of being ignored which I found having a different meaning (though I often don’t exactly what they mean yet)

  1. Ignoring questions
Summary

This is rather straightforward and it often means they don’t know the answer or the answer would be embarrassing for them. It seems to be very common because I experienced a client asking a question that seems important to them during a trip concerning an expensive project and one of their questions has been ignored three times consecutively by another party (not my company though). This client obviously was not Japanese and got quite irritated and angry btw.
In a conversation you should be careful if people laugh after you question because that’s a clear indication that you embarrassed them.

  1. Stopping to contact you
Summary

It could happen, that a person relatively close to you suddenly without a clear indication of what happened, suddenly cools down the contact to you in an abrupt way. A friend of mine explained that in the words of ‘I don’t know what I did but suddenly she doesn’t reply to my messages and just sends me New Years Postcards’. This is I think a similar situation to the west when the other person decided that for whatever reason they don’t want to invest a lot of time in your friendship. Overthinking doesn’t help you here, so just forget it. It is totally possible that such a person comes back into your live later if circumstances changes and there is a common ground again.

  1. Your partner runs of with your kids without prior warning
Summary

Sad as it is to me, that is a common way to end a marriage in Japan. Usually the mother does this and the father is erased from the family and usually never meets the kids again. This seems to happen also in non married couples as I experienced (fortunately not by myself), Murakami Haruki writes about it often.

  1. People don’t greet you on the street and turn away without reason
Summary

This is something that happens to me often and it is very hurtful because I failed to understand it so far. There are some internet articles about it and I think now that it has to do with Tokyo being a metropolis and social behavior is just different from where I come from. Also here, not overthinking is necessary for your mental health. Just change your mindset and train to being able to look through people as well spontaneously if necessary without feeling bad about it.

  1. Not participating in what topic you bring up
Summary

Also very normal. There is a certain set of proper topics for each situation and being ignored means often nothing more than what you started to talk about doesn’t fit to the current context. Doing this too often though leads back to point 2.

Not sure if this list is complete, but really being ignored is a constant factor when dealing with Japanese. You have to see this from a metalevel and treat it like an active part of a communication. In the example you described, it seems to me the person doesn’t know how to look up the thing you asked for. It is very possible that he is trying now frantically to fulfil your request even if it takes hours and will eventually come back to you with the answer when you already forgot about it. Often people don’t respond to requests too easily because it would be a big shame to promise to look something up and then not doing it in the end. As long as they continue talking to you nothing is wrong really…

A tip could be to avoid uncomfortable feelings:

  • don’t repeat a question
  • don’t try to greet people if they seem not to notice you
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