Questions about translating TCG rules

Japanese Language Reading
21

Hmmm interesting.

For this part, I think that または as “or” maybe makes it clearer? I think it’s saying that as a quick alternate rule, you can disallow playing skill cards via 「部隊ｘO」 or differing 「使用部隊」

… which suggests to me that in the normal rules there ARE cases where you can play skill cards with 「部隊ｘO」or not-matching「使用部隊」

Based on that, I think the すべて in the part we were discussing would be 3 units for 部隊ｘ3, 2 for 部隊ｘ2, etc. - like, I think it’s “all the listed unit requirements” not “all units of all types listed on the card” if that makes sense.

Like in Pokemon, if a card listed 1 fire, 1 water, “all” would be 1 fire and 1 water, not all the fire and water you have.

So, I think it’s that you need to fulfill every listed 使用部隊 on the card - if it’s a specific character, that’s one unit of that character. If it’s 部隊ｘX that’s any X number of any units.
If you play with the bonus quick rule, the X number of units have to match AND you can’t play the 0 skill cards freely (unattached to any units at all) like you can in the main game.

That sounds consistent to me! What do you think?

2 Likes
22

Whoah. That…makes a whole lot of sense to me! I’m going to take another look at this in the morning after I’ve slept on it, see it with fresh eyes, but I think your interpretation clears up both the issue of すべて行動不能状態 and 部隊ｘO! Very nice!

1 Like
23

That adds up, yeah! And also adds up with the ‘skill cards use/are used by’ thing–maybe skill cards get used with a character makes it easier to picture, less being consumed and more being used alongside?

The way I was picturing the skill card in question initially was that either you’d have a card that could move however many cards of different units into the inactive zone, and then pick only one from each unit, which would mainly be good if you had many different and few matching units on the board. The other possibility felt like the straightforward ‘this skill card moves all cards of only the particular unit listed to the inactive zone’ option, which seemed a bit inefficient. Considering all the little incongruities, @rodan 's option definitely makes a lot of sense!

This also clears up something else I’d been thinking about: why the phrasing would be 使用部隊 at all. A phrasing like ‘uses unit’ stuck in my head a bit as a precondition to be played. But if it’s short for something like ‘uses two of X unit’ built into the ‘cost’ of the card, that feels like it clicks together a bit better. I’ll sleep on this as well, and in the morning maybe see if I can find some game tutorials…?

24

Alrighty. Let me re-list the sentences I originally posted and gather together all the suggested changes so we can see where we’re at:

Revisions

  • 「アッタク」で選ばれたキャラカードは何の影響も受けません。
    A Character card that is being Attacked will not be affected by other effects.
    (Notes: Looks like this is technically right, but based on discussion in the thread, I’m guessing the intention is this: a character that is being targeted by an Attack can’t be targeted by another character/card.)

  • スキルカードが使えるのは基本的にターンを進めているプレイヤーです。例外としてアクション中に、ターンを進めていないプレイヤーもスキルカードを使うタイミングがあります。
    The player who’s turn it is is generally the only one who can use Skill cards. An exception, however, is when an Action happens: the other player can also use Skill cards then.

(Notes: Also probably technically correct, but need to reword to avoid insinuating that the player will always be able to use a skill card. I think I might need to investigate the order of events further; the Action Flow lays out a pretty clear diagram of the order of events, but the rule book has this to say on the Main Phase, where the Action Flow would occur:
メインフェイスでは、手札にあるスキルカードを使ったり、自分のスタンバイゾーンにある行動可能状態の部隊が持つ「アクション」を好きな順番で好きなだけ行うことができます。
During the Main Phase, you can use Skill cards in your hand and/or use cards in your Standby Zone that are able to act and have Action attributes as much as you’d like and in whatever order you’d like.

…Which doesn’t jive with the Action Flow’s strict order.)

  • スキルカードに書かれた「使用部隊」をすべて行動不能状態にし、行動不能状態になった「使用部隊」の中からそれぞれ1枚を選んで、自分のスタンバイゾーンからアクションゾーンに移します。
    Take all of the Units who can use the Skill card and put them in an inactive state. Then, from among those, choose one card from each Unit and move them from the Standby Zone to the Action Zone.
    Take all of the Unit(s) required by the Skill card and put it or them in an inactive state. Then, from among the Unit(s) picked, choose one card from each and move it or them from the Standby Zone to the Action Zone.
    (Notes: Does this make it more clear that you’re not taking all three of your XX Units for your XX Skill card, but would only need to take just one? This is one of those where the English might end up diverging from a strict translation just to get the point across.)

  • あなた の「サーチポイント」の合計が５点以上、10点以上、15点以上になった場合、それぞれに つき左隣のプレヤーは自分の山札からカードを1枚引きます。
    When your Search Point total reaches 5, 10, or 15, the player sitting to the left of the player who’s action(s) earned the points draws a card from their own deck.
    (Notes: I think we ultimately agreed that this is correct, correct?)

  • Q: 「ガード」を宣言したキャラカードが戦闘力を比べる前に場を離れた場合、「アタック」はどうなりますか？
    A: 「ガード」は失敗となり、元々の「アタック」されたキャラカードと戦闘力を比べることになります。
    Q: If a Character card using “Guard” is removed from the field before comparing its Power with the opposing card’s, what happens to the “Attacking” card?
    A: The Guard fails, and its Power is compared with the Attacking card’s.
    Q: If a Character card using “Guard” is removed from the field before comparing its Power with the opposing card’s, what happens to the card being “Attacked”?
    A: The Guard fails, and the originally “Attacked” card proceeds to compare Powers as usual.

Q: 「サーチ」や「ドロー」を宣言した部隊は、アクション中にそのアクションを失った場合どうなりますか？
A: すでにアクションの宣言はされているので、そのままそのアクションの処理を行います。
Q: If a Unit has declared the “Search” or “Draw” action and that action is interrupted in the middle of the action, what happens?
A: The action had already been declared, so the action must be canceled.

(Notes: So I don’t think there’s an ultimate consensus on this yet, other than that that 失った場合 is probably important and different than 失敗. The Action Flow already having a built-in way to counter searches and draws kind of confuses the matter…

You know what, I just had a thought. So Units are composed of multiple characters (or just one, but that doesn’t matter here). The Actions those Units can take are the Actions written on the character cards comprising them. So an eefara Unit that has eefara cards that can Attack and Search can do those Actions, but it can’t Draw or Intercept, for example. So maybe the question is asking this: “what happens if my Unit that’s searching/drawing loses the character doing the search/draw after I’ve declared the action?” In which case, according to the answer, the action continues.

I’m going through and double-checking the rules, and I don’t see anywhere saying that you have to use the Character card who’s providing the ability. So if I have an attack chara and a search chara and choose to attack, I could use the character who only knows how to search, if that makes sense. If they get guarded against and lose the matchup, then I potentially can’t search the next turn.

In which case, the only time that Q&A would apply is if you had a card that could target specific chara cards within Units… Again, my knowledge of the cards fails me. But I can at least look this weekend, and well as continue to scour the rule book for any place it might say you have to use the chara card with that action if it’s the one with the action written on it.

I think that covers everything. @.@ I think there’s only one major sentence left, with one or two that probably need to be double-checked. Thank you so much for your help so far, everyone; if you aren’t too tired of helping, I do have a few more translation questions I’d like to toss by you if possible.

25
comments rundown

  • 「アッタク」で選ばれたキャラカードは何の影響も受けません。
    Here the one thing I’m worried about in your version is the “other.”
    I read it more like “the card selected by the attack doesn’t receive any 影響.” To try to nail it down it might be worth investigating what exactly the rules use 影響 to mean. I could believe status effects caused by something or other, or I could buy your description in parentheses too. But maybe this’ll help you decide.

  • メインフェイスでは、手札にあるスキルカードを使ったり、自分のスタンバイゾーンにある行動不能状態の部隊が持つ「アクション」を好きな順番で好きなだけ行うことができます。
    I think you missed a crucial kanji in your interpretation of this! 行動不能状態 isn’t “able to act” it’s “UNable to act” - this is the inactive state that skill cards and action decisions put affected units into
    Also, I think there’s been a small mixup in noun’s modifying nouns again. 自分のスタンバイゾーンにある行動不能状態の部隊が持つ「アクション」を is “actions held by inactive units in your own standby zone” ← you’re going to do something to THOSE (the actions). So I think it’s saying you can play skillcards, and then resolve the “held action” of the units used in any order you’d like.
    So I think it jibes with the order that way - standby is for playing “skill” cards and resolving “actions” decided in the first phase (according to your paste earlier), and you can do that in any order (and as much as you like, so if you choose not to resolve an action I think that’s ok).
    (maybe that helps! This is an interesting way to consume a card game, reading the rules in a different language and imagining the card, haha)

  • スキルカードに書かれた「使用部隊」をすべて行動不能状態にし、行動不能状態になった「使用部隊」の中からそれぞれ1枚を選んで、自分のスタンバイゾーンからアクションゾーンに移します。
    I think your version on this is clearer, yes. One strategy to remove even more ambiguity might be to decide on a term for 「使用部隊」like “unit requirement” or something. A lot of where we ran into trouble for this was treating that term like a name for a unit group and not a name for a requirement.
    Probably you want to preserve key term consistency as much as possible since that’s something players are definitely gonna latch onto.

  • あなた の「サーチポイント」の合計が５点以上、10点以上、15点以上になった場合、それぞれに つき左隣のプレヤーは自分の山札からカードを1枚引きます。
    Yep, I think this one seemed right :slightly_smiling_face:
    slight clarity improvement might be to replace “when” with “each time” just so somebody doesn’t get confused thinking it’s supposed to only happen once. (in the Japanese version if you somehow went from 0 points to 15 on one turn, for example, I think your neighbor would get 3 cards). But that’s more of a small cleanup than a translation problem!

  • Q: 「ガード」を宣言したキャラカードが戦闘力を比べる前に場を離れた場合、「アタック」はどうなりますか？
    A: 「ガード」は失敗となり、元々の「アタック」されたキャラカードと戦闘力を比べることになります。
    :+1:

  • Q: 「サーチ」や「ドロー」を宣言した部隊は、アクション中にそのアクションを失った場合どうなりますか？
    A: すでにアクションの宣言はされているので、そのままそのアクションの処理を行います。
    What you describe about characters and units makes sense to me! Personally, I’d put money on that (or that kind of thing) being what this question is about! The declared action still goes through if (for whatever reason) the unit doesn’t have that action anymore (because something happened to the individual character card that had it), which is a different condition from when the action is “intercepted” by the other player (in which case it would not go through).

I say have at it! I’m enjoying myself - I’m at the right reading comprehension level where I can help pretty easily but it’s still interesting (not trivial) so it’s fun. (hopefully I’m not taking away fun translation help opportunities from anyone else…)

1 Like
26

Excellent! I’m pretty much there myself- I pretty much know all the words, but it’s figuring out how they work together and in the context of a card game that gives my brain a workout.

And the more the merrier, for sure. If anyone else steps in the thread and would like to contribute, even to something that’s already been crossed off the list, I say have at it.

I’ll see if I can post some more questions later tonight; I think my original batch should have been the toughest ones, but you never know.

(And I will sit down and go through your comments when I have some time to dedicate to them, rohan. Will read them for now and chew on them.)

Later edit:
So I’ve take a little bit of time and looked through some of my cards; this isn’t a full survey by any means, but I probably flipped through around 10 character cards and 20 skill cards to try to get a feel for how their abilities are used. Character cards tend to fall into fall into two categories: either an effect happens when they get placed or as long as they remain on the field (they can also not produce any effects in play).

Skill cards have a generally diverse range of effects; I picked out two to write their descriptions here as data points:

  • キャラカードを１枚撰び、ターン終了まで、そのキャラカードのランク＊１つにつき、戦闘力−２００。ただし０を下回らない。
  • アクション中のキャラカードを捨札場所に置く。このカードはアクション中にしか使用できない。

I’ve also found Skill cards whose descriptions finish with このカードはアクション中に使用できない。
So there are a few types of Skill cards: one that has no particular play restrictions, one that can only be used during an Action, and one that cannot be used during an Action. (There might be more as well; this is just what I’ve found.) So my thinking is this: the Action Flow posted above is only for each individual Action; if I choose to both Attack and Draw, there’s a separate Action Flow applied to each, and that’s when I’d be able to use that second card description.

On the other hand, the ones that say that they cannot be used during an Action must mean that they cannot be used in the same retaliatory fashion; the Action Flow must only apply if you declare an Action. Otherwise, you might be able to just use Skill cards as you please, given no restrictions on the card itself. I believe I posted a snippet of the Japanese description of the Main Phase, which seemed to suggest that you could use Skill cards independent of the Action Flow.

I’m thinking this is even more the case now that I’ve found several Skill cards that just straight up let you pick a card and discard it.

27

(My previous post was getting really long; I’ll only double-post this once, I promise. :pray:)

Replies to rodan's comments

It sucks; I don’t think I’ve seen the exact work 影響 used anywhere else. :disappointed_relieved: My current thinking is it refers to the effects from another card, Character or Skill, but I don’t have much more to back that up besides lack of evidence to the contrary, sadly. There are no status effects in the game; not traditional ones, anyway. There are effects where you can temporarily lower a character’s Power stat. I don’t think I’ve seen anything that lets you straight up remove an Action that character provides besides killing the card.

Very good catch. That was another typo on my part; the rules have a 可能 there, not a 不能. I’ll go back and edit that. (Is it still a typo if you typed a word that doesn’t even begin the same?)

I don’t think there’s any inherent order when using ~たり, correct? So you should be able to use skill cards or actions. Your comment here might be invalidated due to my typo; I’m really sorry about that. o.o; Just to recap, the orginal does say 自分のスタンバイゾーンにある行動可能状態の部隊が持つ「アクション」を, so I think it’s just saying that you can perform the Actions “held by”/contained in the able-to-act Units, correct? Normally you’d declare an Action, tap/turn the Unit in the Standby Zone, pick a character from the Unit, then move it to the Action Zone.

No disagreement here. I do like “Unit requirement”; it would work well with both “eefara Unit required” and “2 Units required”.

Further agreed. :+1:

I did find multiple Skill (and Character) cards in my short search that just straight up let you pick a character card and discard it, so the theory holds even more water, I think. I think the only remaining issue was how to interpret 処理, right? Whether it meant to continue the action or end it? Remind me if we did decide it went one way or another. :face_with_monocle:
(Original text:
Q: 「サーチ」や「ドロー」を宣言した部隊は、アクション中にそのアクションを失った場合どうなりますか？
A: すでにアクションの宣言はされているので、そのままそのアクションの処理を行います。)

Here are what should be my remaining outstanding questions from my first go-through translating the rulebook:

  • ゲームの第１ターンのドローフェイズからカードを引くことができます。
    Cards are drawn starting from the first turn’s first Draw Phase.
    (Notes: This line is from several special rulesets that differ from the normal game. This line seems pretty straightforward, but it’s why they felt the need to state it that makes me suspicious I’m missing something. Normally each player draws one card from their deck at the start of their turn, except for the first player’s first turn; they do not draw a card that turn, but can afterwards. So I suppose this is saying that that restriction is lifted for this mode of play.)

  • 自分の場にあるキャラカードが「使用部隊」となっているスキルカードを使い、いずれかのプレイヤーの場にあるスペシャルダブルスカード以外のキャラカードを１枚撰び、捨札置場に置く（使用したスキルカードは捨札置場に置きます）
    If you use a Skill Card with a Character Card with a corresponding Unit, select any non-Special Doubles Character Card from any of your opponents and place it in their discard pile. (Then place the used Skill Card in your own discard pile.)
    (Notes: I think it’s mostly that beginning snarl of modifiers I wanted to double-check here.)
    (Possible context? Info, anyway: A Special Doubles card is a special kind of Character card that relies on multiple Units being deployed before it can be.)

  • プレイヤーやカードを撰び能力や効果は、自分と自分の両隣のプライヤーとそれらの場にあるカードに対してのみ行えます。
    When using an ability or effect that allows you to choose a player, you may only choose yourself or one of the players adjacent to you and the cards on their fields to target.
    (Notes: So the only reason I place this here is to double-check my interpretation of 両隣, and to see if there’s a better way to re-phrase it if I’m right. In this game mode, it’s you and a partner vs. another pair of players. You and your teammate sit on one side, the others on the other. I’m guessing that 両隣 is referring to your teammate and the guy sitting directly across from you, but I could be wrong.)

And there we have it; I actually had a few more problem points, but our conversations have already cleared those up nicely.

28
  • メインフェイスでは、手札にあるスキルカードを使ったり、自分のスタンバイゾーンにある行動可能状態の部隊が持つ「アクション」を好きな順番で好きなだけ行うことができます。

Hmmm yeah I wouldn’t trust my previous wording because of the typo (and I think I didn’t mean to use “then”).
I think in that case your interpretation is about right. Maybe the way it squares with the action phase is that it’s basically just saying that even the units that don’t end up being involved in a skill card - you still get to do something with those, it’s just that it can be a skill card or a regular action if they’re still active by this phase?

Oh, I agree with Notebooked, I think 処理 for something like an outstanding action would be processing that action in the sense that it DOES go through.

  • ゲームの第１ターンのドローフェイズからカードを引くことができます。

I think your description makes sense for this one. If you can’t normally draw on the draw phase of the first turn of the game, then this modifying that fits to me.

  • 自分の場にあるキャラカードが「使用部隊」となっているスキルカードを使い

This part also confuses me, but my best interpretation matches yours, i.e. that it’s when you use a skill card, such that a character card on your field becomes its 「使用部隊」.
What confuses me is となっているスキルカード sounds like the skill card itself is becoming the 「使用部隊」, but it’s possible the interaction with the が just before clarifies that (or makes it ambigious) and the modification of skill card isn’t directly modifying it into the subject but more like an actor involved (like the causer in causative form or that kind of thing).
I haven’t found any direct evidence confirming that (and I’d be curious to see it if someone does have it) but a skill card becoming 「使用部隊」doesn’t make sense to me from what I can tell of the game, so I think the best guess still stands (barring typos anyway).

  • プレイヤーやカードを撰び能力や効果は、自分と自分の両隣のプライヤーとそれらの場にあるカードに対してのみ行えます。

This one I’m also not sure about for the same reason as you.
If it’s definitely pictured as two sides across from each other facing each other, I could buy 両隣 just meaning your partner (on whichever side)
But on the other hand I could buy the description you describe of you + partner + person across from you, since games generally you sorta picture as being around a table.
Maybe the deciding factor would be if the possible effects are the kind of stuff where it would make sense to do them against either an enemy or a friend? Like if there’s one that could be played in there like “pick a player and destroy a unit” I think the you + partner + person across from you wins out.

29

That’s what I’m thinking as well.

So we’re thinking here that, if chara A has Search and chara B uses it, but opponent C removes A from the field before it activates, Search still goes through?

I double-checked, and no typos this time. For what it’s worth, this particular rule is found in the “Quick Battle” ruleset, and it’s one of three actions a player may take during their turn, the others being placing cards on the field and passing their turn. The objective of this ruleset is to have as many character cards on the field as possible when after all participating players say “Pass”. The rest of this rule makes it sound like, regardless of the actual effect of the Skill Card, whatever you’re targeting gets discarded, so maybe there’s some sort of significance in the となっている? I’m really not sure by this point.

Since this is a Quick Battle, I wonder if, instead of the normal “a chara card ‘takes on’ a Skill card to use it”, the Skill card is becoming a proxy for that, representing both chara and skill somehow. The regular Action Flow doesn’t seem to apply here, so there wouldn’t be a way to counter a skill card, as far as I can tell.

Does any of that make any sense?

Yeah, that’s the reason I’m wondering if it applies in two directions, beside and across from you, because otherwise you’d never be able to use a skill card against an opponent. They’ve got a little diagram in the rule book showing the table setup; let me see if I can recreate it here.

Horrible Recreation

image
image740×350 3.37 KB

The arrows I’m not entirely sure about; play is supposed to pass to the left, which makes sense for Team A in the diagram, but not B.
「ゲームは先攻チームの1番プレイヤーから左隣に進行していきます。」
「例：チームAが先攻の場合、チームAの1番＞チームBの2番＞チームBの1番＞チームAの2番＞という進行になります。」

30

That’s what I think anyway, yeah!

I think probably we’re wading a little deep into game mechanics for me to say at this point, haha.
My best guess is still that your original interpretation was pretty much correct. It might be worth asking about the XがYなっているZ grammar point in the “short grammar questions” thread or somewhere, but I do suspect the answer is just that you can use that to say “Z has X which becomes Y” in a certain way.
The best evidence I can find is an example sentence that apparently works: 実がたくさんなっている木 for “tree laden with fruit.” But who knows.

With this one, I’m not sure what the arrows in your diagram are doing, but it sounds like the “play proceeds to the left” does make sense, and you’re totally right that 隣 would cross team boundaries so to speak.
A1 → B2 → B1 → A2 so just around the table clockwise in the diagram.
So yep! your interpretation of the original quote was correct.

31

Oooh, good thought, I’ll ask there.

Excellent. That’s another vote for, so I’ll leave it as-is for now.

32

(Another double post, I’m sorry. :pray:)

I posted in the Grammar questions, thread, but while I wait, I was going through the starter deck included with the rulebook and going over my translations to make sure everything looks good. Found a few typos, but it’s mostly pretty straightforward stuff. I did dig up a question or two, however, for whoever wouldn’t mind taking a look:

  • (Ability on Character card)
    このカードが場に出た時か場から捨札置場に置かれた時、このカードが所属していない部隊を1つ選び、その部隊をスタンバイゾーンに移動し行動可能にする。
    When this card is placed on the field or placed on the discard pile, choose one Unit not attached to this one. The chosen Unit becomes active and is moved to the Standby Zone.
    (Notes: it’s our old friend 所属していない部隊 again, but negative this time.)

  • (Ability on Character card0
    このカードが場から捨札置場に置かれた時、対戦相手を1人選び、そのプレイヤーはサーチポイントを２点得る。
    When this card is placed onto the discard pile from the field, choose one of your opponents. That player gains 2 Search Points.
    (Notes: Just wanted a double-check this; most cards don’t let you give out free points to your opponent.)

I’ve seen quite a few Skill cards in my review that mention, …使用キャラカードが所属する部隊をスタンバイゾーンに移動し行動可能にする。Which makes it sound like you move the entire Unit with a chosen Chara card when using a Skill. I was thinking you only needed to move the Chara card using the skill to the Action Zone, so I’ll need to go back and check that.

33

I think このカードが所属していない部隊 would be “a unit that this card doesn’t belong to,” if that helps. Sounds like you have the meaning right but maybe be careful that it’s clear - “this one” makes it sound like maybe the card itself is a unit.

I searched 対戦相手 a little to confirm and I believe you’re right. Sounds like it’s more of a penalty than a privilege in this case though! (i.e. it’s more that it’s making you do it than letting you, I’d say)

1 Like