Since a few levels I’ve started using Wanikani Reorder Ultimate 2, I found it marvelous and it really helps me improve my times by providing me with a tool to schedule and organize around Wanikani. (Now I see how some people could mange to level up in astonishing times without going crazy).
I love it so far, and what I love the most is the 1x1, but I do believe the gain in reviewing speed could be paid in something else: understanding and long-term memory. What I’ve noticed is that I have trouble remembering some kanjis from just a few levels behind, even worse with words that use irregular readings. The kanjis get confused when it comes to reading, and I’m completely blank when it comes to meaning.
Now it could just be due to the fact I’m going faster when it comes to levels, and since I’m going faster I should be learning more, and that could cause my brain to erase previous notions now deemed not useful anymore.
I want to make it clear that I already know many of the words Wanikani is presenting me, I just don’t know how to write them. When I’m presented with a kanji meaning, I can usually guess its reading based on my voucabolary and cab get it right 80% of the times at first attempt. Don’t really know if this is related or not.
Time for my question: does using a Wanikani reorder script (not just Wanikani Reorder Ultimate 2) influence the SRS? Does 1x1 influence it as well? Are there any papers/research about it?
I doubt that the 1x1 mode has anything to do with it, since for other SRS systems like Anki, you’re also forced to recall both reading and meaning at the same time, and that’s also what I automatically did in WaniKani reviews even before I started using 1x1. The 1x1 mode simply enables me to be faster since I already know what word is coming up next, so I don’t have to recognize the word twice.
For you, it has probably more to do with the fact that you’re going faster and learning more stuff in the same period of time, and spending less time on lessons and reviews means worse recognition?
I also started with some prior knowledge, and I also feel that the higher level I get, the more likely it becomes that I recognize a kanji from only a single vocab I have seen it in, so it is not as reinforced as kanji from earlier levels (that I have maybe seen in 3 or 4 different words). This makes it more likely to not have this 100% sure feeling for the reading, and much less for the meaning (when you have only seen it in a single vocab word before).
@Helix you can select to have reading and meaning of an item directly following each other in your reviews.
1 x 1 mode will remove the interleaving (links to Tofugu video that mentions an academic paper about learning and forgetting) that the WK team purposely built into the SRS, so I would guess your loss in retention is at least partly due to its use. I also use this script but have purposely never used 1 x 1 mode.
Yeah, pretty much this. The short explanation is that if you see both sides of an item separately, you’re recalling info 2 times instead of once. So double the practice? \o/
I wouldn’t use the 1x1 mode. WK has a pool of max 10 items going around at the same time (i.e you’ll never have more than 10 incomplete items at the same time, without reorder usage). I’d use that as a advantage to better learning.
I guess I’m declaring a self-ban on 1x1 mode for the rest of my time on Wanikani then. Thank you for elaborating the rationale (or at least one possible hypothesis) behind the mechanism. Also thank you @Rowena for pointing out the academic research.
As an ending note to this topic I do think authors (@rfindley) of these scripts should mention these facts in the first post here on Wanikani.
Rfindley is not the original creator, he’s just maintaining it, I believe.
Nevertheless, with extra personalization, it comes both good and bad things o:
I’m very much considering to stop recommending this reorder script and suggest these two instead:
The latter doesn’t have a 1x1 mode. Worst case scenario, if you order them by SRS intervals and you have less than 10 items on that SRS level to review, the pool to cycle between will be lower than what WK originally has. But that’s not an everytime thing. I also think that reordering by SRS levels is less harmful than reordering by WK levels. The latter might clue you on what the items are. Imagine you’re mixing 2 kanji, but you know one is from a higher level and the other is from a lower level… if the system is ordered by WK level, then you know which kanji it is without actually knowing the correct one.
If I remember correctly Rfindley is not even mantaining the script anymore, he’s just hosting it. Nevertheless, this issue should be mentioned and since he’s the last maintainer I do believe it is a choice for him to make.
Of course more control leads to more dangers, what I do believe is that everyone that wants more control should be at least aware of what they’re going into/doing. There may be people that, unlike me, would prefer speed over memorization for various reasons, that’s why I think a clear statement by the author of such scripts would be the best way to operate a sensible choice.
I’ve also had the feeling that reordering levels had the effect of helping me recognize kanjis I would misread as other kanjis. I thought it to be of great help, but also wondered if that was really a good thing, I forgot to mention that in the first post though.
Thank you for mentioning these two scripts I will review them and decide whether to use them and/or ditch a WK-level-based reorder script.
I didn’t even know about 1x1 mode, but just reading about it seems counter productive, I usually force myself to recall reading meaning and mnemonic up to apprentice 3, except stuff like word + word = wordword with no weird readings, it seems to be working well, but then again I’m only level 8.
I actually really liked the 1x1 mode and found it very helpful. I first started using Reorder with 1x1 as part of a memory experiment that turned out to be highly successful: always review the reading-then-meaning back to back, because doing the reading first helps you think in Japanese faster (search “reading-then-meaning” in the forums if you want the reasoning).
Of course, you can still do reading-then-meaning without 1x1 by just reciting it that way in your head every time, regardless if it’s asking for meaning or reading. That has also proven successful, so 1x1 isn’t strictly necessary.
But the other significant impact for me was that it made things far easier for me to remember. The brain loves consistency and sequences, and especially consistent sequences. As long as I repeated the items over and over during the initial lesson until I could remember them without hesitation, then the back-to-back helped cement the reading and meaning as a pair in my head, and reviews were much smoother and easier later. (But, if this doesn’t work for you, then it doesn’t, so do whatever works for you).
As for interleaving, the principle actually refers to bringing things together that would normally be separated by a day or more. It’s not about mixing things up for the sake of separating them. The reasoning is that doing related things together helps you discern relationships that you wouldn’t have noticed if you had done them separately. So, it really doesn’t apply to 1x1, or even to readings and meanings in general if they were already going to be in the same review session.
But, as always, people are different, so just try various things, and stick with what works best for you.