Onyomi/Kunyomi Errors

WaniKani
#14

Hmm…I think you missed the part where I said that I 100% understand what people are saying. You didn’t need to repeat it.

You don’t understand what I’m saying, because you keep insisting that it would be reinforcing an incorrect reading. I’m not saying that you should get another chance because it’s “correct” (it obviously isn’t). The problem is that you can know the correct answer and just type the wrong one.

We’re not in the real world here. It’s a flash card system that shows you 口 and sometimes it wants こう and sometimes it wants くち. And even if you know both and understand which is used when, you can still just type the wrong one, because a background color I rarely pay attention to was different.

I don’t see what’s wrong with the screen shaking and it saying: woops, you thought we were looking for the kanji reading, but we’re looking for the vocabulary reading.

Actually, now that I’ve written this, I understand the confusion. And I don’t think it’s what anyone on here has realized yet.

When it asks for “kanji reading,” you all interpret that as exactly what it says: a reading of the kanji. This whole time, I’ve assumed they just renamed “onyomi” to “kanji reading” to be more friendly to new people (and this is reinforced by only accepting the onyomi to be marked correct).

I also assumed this because you should know the onyomi so that you can use it in compound words that need it.

If this were the case (which I’m seeing that it’s not), then typing a reading other than the onyomi is wrong, and by letting you have another chance, it’s reinforcing an incorrect answer to that flashcard.

This is the asymmetry I was referring to.

1 Like
#15

I’m not saying it’s correct in real life. I’m saying that in the context of a flashcard system that shows you 口 and sometimes wants you to type こう and sometimes wants you to type くち, it’s perfectly reasonable to let you have another chance if you thought you were on the other type of card.

#16

Yeah it happens.

So then just accept you got it wrong and move on? Why should WK be changed from correctly marking your answer as wrong?

Why should it? If you’re wrong you should be marked wrong.

Well then it seems you need to change your assumption because that’s not what it means. For example, 川 asks for かわ even as kanji.

But it’s not. Kun-yomi are not wrong readings. That’s why they are not marked wrong and you are asked to give the different reading instead.

1 Like
#17

You’ll get used to the color scheme and stop making that mistake, though.
If you’re really bothered by it, you can get an undo userscript.

#18

He was asking for it shake. I still think shaking would give the impression that the reading was “acceptable but not the one we wanted right now.” He’s saying he didn’t see the kanji shaking in that light, but now understands that it’s intended to mean that.

1 Like
#19

By kanji reading, they mean the first reading they taught you. In most cases its the onyomi, but if a kanji’s onyomi is hardly ever used/doesn’t exist, they’ll go straight to the kunyomi (eg: 竹)

It gets a little tedious to remember which reading you learned first after you get a good grip of the kanji’s vocab, but in most cases that would be the onyomi

#20

Do the bars say different things also or only the color changes? I didn’t even think about it until right now, where it asks for Meaning or Reading in the black and white bar area? Does it also say either Vocabulary Reading or Kanji Reading and Vocabulary Meaning and Kanji Meaning?

I need to pay more attention to things, I am wondering what triggers my brain to answer with what I do because I feel like I am on autopilot a lot of the time when answering stuff…lol!

#21

image

2 Likes
#22

I totally get this. I wish at least for the kanji readings section, they would tell you up front whether they wanted the onyomi or kunyomi reading. I’ve input an onyomi before and it was looking for the kunyomi reading AND vice versa. The vocabulary section seems to want only kunyomi readings, but the kanji readings section is inconsistent.

Example: 犬

In the vocabulary section, I know it’s いぬ. In the kanji section, where you’re normally expected to input the onyomi, wanikani wants the kunyomi and not the onyomi reading けん, which you aren’t taught in the lessons (at least for the first 3 levels; dunno if this kanji is revisited with the onyomi later). This bugs me.

This whole ordeal could be solved if there were some flag or asterisk that says おん or くん on the slides/cards, so you’d know which one you’re supposed to input.

edit: I don’t think changing screen background colors would solve the problem; there are color blind people out there.

#23

It depends on the word. It can be either.

Only one word on WaniKani with the reading けん is taught, and it’s in level 52 (along with the kanji 猟, hunting, for 猟犬, hunting dog.) In the meantime, 5 other words that use いぬ are taught.

Teaching けん and then having it not appear for so long would be frustrating to other people, even if it would solve what you see as a problem.

What exactly is the ordeal though? The kanji items will just shake to let you know to input the other one, and you’re not marked wrong.

If you meant telling you “onyomi” or “kunyomi” on vocab cards… that’s giving you a hint, which they never do anywhere else.

1 Like
#24

I completely agree with this. Since I know some Japanese already, I’m mostly familiar with the kun-yomi. But, I’m struggling with the onyomi.

It would be great to have a second chance since I usually think of the kunyomi first (since I already know the meaning of words as vocabulary.

The on-yomi is just more unnoticable. So, when I go on to learn kun-yomi on Wanikani, I’m still very much still trying to learn the onyomi as a new thing, but which later on isn’t a wanted answer. So, I’d also love to have a second chance - perhaps marked differently from when you do mistakes for the onyomi questions, since it’s more wrong, but it would still be a good thing to be given a chance to correct to the right reading.

Full disclosure: I’m completely self-taught, so this is one of the issues that arise from that - I never learnt the foundations, but still know tons of Japanese words by now and truly do understand Japanese, especially trough hearing. I also talk Japanese fine. Reading and writing is it’s own issue.

So this is about a pedagogical problem as I see it: how to teach grown-ups how to read/write Japanese, when they may already know some or a lot of Japanese? How to connect the dots between what you already know, and make it more grounded in theory/grammar etc?

That’s why I think this option of not faulting an on-yomi-reading when asking for a kun-yomi, makes sense. It’s about struggling to separate readings-as-such from the word itself and learning both are possible ways of seeing the same word - and learning that the two are connected.

(you might even have encountered the reading in vocabulary you know, but didn’t understand the connection to the kanji).

#25

It sounds like the terminology “kanji reading, vocab reading, on’yomi, kun’yomi” etc is not completely understood. I wouldn’t personally bother with trying to memorise which is the kun/on’yomi. Just learn how words are read and how kanji can be read.

kanji review = what are the possible ways to read this? If it shakes you are correct but there are more correct options so let’s keep looking for the desired option. This is not a word and doesn’t hold a specific meaning. It’s a letter.

vocab review = how do you say this word?

Which is Kun/On’yomi will sort itself out naturally in your brain as you come across more words. I don’t know if the issue has been resolved or if it’s still unclear to some.

2 Likes
#26

No, the vocab section is asking for the reading of the kanji(s) as a word. Only you have, mistakenly, assumed that always means only kunyomi.

It already does. Your wish is already a feature.

1200×793 61.8 KB

#27

I’ve had this happen a few times as well (鏡 gave me trouble with this just the other day). Its a little frustrating when you already know the onyomi but WK doesn’t teach it and thus only accepts the kunyomi as the kanji’s reading.

but kanji like that are few and far between, and no more than 1 in every other level (in my experience).

If it helps, kunyomi is usually used if the vocab is made up of a stand-alone kanji or a single kanji followed by hiragana
Onyomi is usually used for vocab made up of multiple kanji, but there are loads of exceptions (and the mnemonics will mention that)

you can download the ignore script to give yourself a second chance!

#28

Well, except for する verbs and variants like ずる and じる. For example, 信じる.

2 Likes
#29

exceptions exceptions :pensive:
(edited my post)

#30

i-it can’t? O_o

2 Likes
#31

NO! :rage:
I’m not even from chicago what am I doing

1 Like
#32

If that’s how you want the program to work for you, get the Override script and mark yourself correct. It only affects your own learning.

1 Like
#33

This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.