Learning through Translating: ブラックジャックによろしく episode 4: 夏雲

I think the main advantage is the “easy Japanese” versions. (I wasn’t aiming at the normal articles yet)

It doesn’t take much to scare away potential participants and bringing a new website could be too much for some people.

Well, it would be a different thread, so there could be potentially completely different audiences…

I mean like I said, I’m pretty much open to anything. It’s just that at some point we need to pick an article from the available resources or nothing will happen, we’ll just endlessly speculate.

If you guys want to try a different article from a different source I’ll follow you in your initiative but otherwise I’ll create the thread tomorrow if only to make sure something is happening.

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Actually, we can only create a thread a week so it’s either NHK news for a week or we continue on Episode 5.

  • Episode 5
  • NHK News
  • Another reading exercise

0 voters

Ah, I was thinking of a “Learning through Translating: NHK” thread, that would be intermittently active (when someone wants to do it, bring a new message about an article, and for a couple of days the article is analyzed).

Maybe such thread even already exists…

EDIT: Indeed:

@Michikusa :

@Michikusa: as you created the "NHK Easy News" thread...

do you think it would be OK to use it for “heavy” grammar dissection of the articles (that is, not just asking an occasional post about one word not understood, but grammar parsing of the whole sentences, and possibly search of the word on a native dictionnary, copying back the definitions in Japanese, well, something like 5-10 posts of the kind you can see here, per NHK article.

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In all honesty (though I’ve voted), I don’t think the rules are that strict. I think we can all think of at least one person who’s in more than one book club, or who manages more than one book club. Like I said, I think the idea of doing easier articles at weekends and the manga on weekdays is quite workable, and would help avoid monotony and burn-out. We could have a current affairs/easy Japanese club that’s kinda ad-hoc and which doesn’t require lots of consistency (like one short article a week that will probably only require one day to translate and explain in full), which most people will probably find easy to join and appreciate: I think there are a lot of people looking at NHK News Web Easy articles here, especially since the kanji in them are usually less difficult. We could also ‘advertise’ this thread there, because I honestly doubt that many people know about us (or about this manga).

EDIT: Thanks @YanagiPablo for digging up the threads. I can see that the last one is fairly recent, even if the other two are essentially dead. Wonder if we really need to enter that last one though, since it’s not very active either… perhaps we can do analysis in another thread and post links in that one?

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はい、意味が分かっている
でも文法は分からなくてしまった

I don’t understand the (grammatical) function of the 『に』 in 死に方『に』.
To what does it attaches and how ?

死に is the word you’re looking for. The masu stem of [verb] + 方 = manner of [verb]-ing. Here, 死に方 is literally the ‘manner of dying’.
EDIT: Suddenly realised I might have misread your question. What @ayamedori says below is right. Another way of looking at it is that に indicates the thing to which something belongs, or the context in which something exists. It’s very commonly used with the verbs ある and いる, as well as with their negative forms ない and いない e.g. 私に車がない。It’s a lot like saying ‘There is no shame in failure, only a chance to begin anew.’ The sentence says ‘There is no “good” or “bad” in how one dies…”

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木も鳥もない -> “there are neither trees nor birds in the garden”
Except instead of a physical location, here it’s an abstract concept. The に marks 死に方 as the ‘place’ where there’s neither いい nor 悪い.

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Thanks.
I was too narrowed to the tagging of the “physical place” to envision it could be abstract.
The “context in which something exists” indeed makes sense.

I think that would be a great idea!

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So if I understand correctly we start the activity in @Michikusa’s thread, is that it?

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You are very welcome to do so. It certainly feels like the right place, there’s no point in making another NHK thread when this one already exists.

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Ok, I’ll let someone bump the topic however as I’ve already been warned not to post too much and bumping might be perceived as being too much.

So I went and looked and all of the episodes are 0 円 except for the much later on so as it turns out we still have plenty of material on hand.

@Jonapedia I was thinking about what you said about translating everything.

Generally, when a sentence is simple, I just say in English what it means without going further into it. It doesn’t take much time and everything is covered that way.

We could devise a system for dealing with simple sentences. I could skip them entirely when I number the strips but then it becomes harder to follow what is going on. This isn’t so much for the story but rather for the context.

I’m always open to improvements on the activity but I don’t know how to deal with easier sentences in a more productive way.

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I’ll slowly get started (just the title) while you guys handle the NHK news article.


第5話 外科と内科と医局と斉藤

A weird title. Fifth episode:
外科(department of surgery) と(and) 内科(department of internal medicine) と(and) 医局(doctor’s office) と(and) 斎藤 (Saitou)

I checked the first few pages so I understand the title, there seems to be a gathering of some kind with the different departments of the hospital. Not too sure how to word it in English however.


dictionary fun

Edit:
I thought I would explore the dictionary further.


This is something YP touched upon last time but I wanted to delve further into this.

When you make a search, you can pick:
☆で始まる: starting with;

☆でー致する:
this one is more cryptic to me. It could mean that the ー is where the word is. Weblio doesn’t have anything about 致する while Shirabe Jisho has just one entry:
致する: “to do”…
I think it means “just the expression” strictly speaking;

☆で終わる: finish with… (opposite time で始まる);

『を』説明文『に』含む: contain an explanatory note;
I have yet to experiment with this one, will let you know once I find out more.

『を』見出し『に』含む: contain a “heading”;
Not sure about this one either. Depends what they mean by heading here;


I ended up registering with a GooID which was easy to do as you just use your Google credentials.


More dictionary fun

So just for fun, let’s look up 医局. This time around I picked this option でー致する.

So as it turns out Goo does have a bilingual dictionary which means I don’t need to use Weblio anymore! I don’t know which dictionary it uses for the definition however.

①: 病院などで、医務を扱う部局。また、医師が詰めている部屋。「医局員」

件:

As I suspected, it’s a counter word for:

ⓐ matter, case, item, affair, subject

など: means “etc…” so I guess here it’s something like:
:speech_balloon: “At hospitals (and the like)…
医務【いむ】Medical affairs;
扱う【あつかう】v. “to treat”;
部局【ぶきょく】department, part;

:speech_balloon: “At the hospital and the like, the section which deals with medical affairs also the room where the doctor is on duty”

また: also;
医師【いしゃ】Doctor, physician;
詰める【つめる】 There are many definitions for this one. It could also mean “to fill” but since it’s a transitive verb and there’s no 『を』I think it means the intransitive version: “to be on duty”;
部屋【へや】room;

一致(いっち)する = “to match (exactly)”

AをBに含む = “to contain A in B”.
見出し or 見出し語 is a headword; a headword that contains [search term] can have that search term in any position, not just at the very start or end.

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This is a transcription of the Manga as found on Sukima: I’ll translate it one line at a time (or at the very least give it my best shot)

① 名門「永禄大学医学部」を卒業した斉藤英二郎は、永禄大学附属病院で研修医として働く事になった。

“Having graduated from the Renown Eiroku University Medical Department, it is decided that Saitou will work at Eiroku Univeristy affiliated hospital”


名門【めいもん】prestigious school;
永禄大学医学部『を』direct object: Eiroku University Medical Faculty;
卒業した: graduation (past 〜する) graduated;
英二郎: I would surmise this is Saitou’s last name which I don’t think we saw before in the previous episodes;
永禄大学附属病院で研修医: Eiroku university associated hospital;
事になる: to have decided;


Known Issues:

:x: As of episode 4, Saitou has yet to graduate; he’s still being evaluated by 白鳥先生. I don’t know why it says: 卒業した as if it was completed.

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② 医師になるには医師免許を取得してから二年間、実際の現場の指導医の元で臨床研修を受けなければならない。


医師免許【いしゆんきょ】medical license;
所得【しょとく】v. “acquisition”;
二年間: period of two years;

:writing_hand: So it could be that Saitou has graduated but he must undergo supervision for a span of two years before actually getting his license.

実際【しっさい】reality;
現場【げんば】setting;
指導医【しどうい】preceptor; 白鳥先生 in that case;
元: origin (I think here it means that the training originates from the preceptor in a から sort of way);

:speech_balloon: “Saitou must receive his clinical training from the preceptor in that real setting”


③ しかし、月給は3万8千円。

:speech_balloon: “However the monthly salary is 38,000 円”


④ 上京して一人暮らしをしている英二郎はそれだけでは当然足りない。

:speech_balloon: “Moving to the capital and living on his own is of course unfeasible for Saitou in that way (with the 38,000 円);

☆ Vocabulary ☆:

上京して【じょうきょう+して】proceeding to the capital;
一人暮らし【ひとりぐらし】living by oneself;

英二郎は: I think this refers to Saitou but this time they call him by his last name instead of by his first name;

それだけ『では』 “to that extent”;
当然 【とうぜん】of course;
足りない【たりない】insufficient;


He already has his license, you’re not allowed to practice medicine without an 医師免許 (取得してから = “since obtaining”). That’s why the two-year 研修 is a thing in the first place, to learn clinical skills you’re not allowed to put into practice when you’re not a licensed doctor yet.

Yep, 指導医の元で = “under [the supervision of] an attending”.

Eijiro is his first name. それだけでは = “with just that”, それ refers to the $380.

And 説明文に含む is when the queried word is in the definitions (to search for synonyms, antonymes, etc) so ?

Yup, and possibly in the examples or ‘additional note’ sections. Or at least, that’s as far as I can tell. It’s like the “texte intégral” and “entrée” search options that some French dictionaries (e.g. Le Robert) offer.